"Suggest some good AWI rules to me please!" Topic

I am debating on starting up some 28mm AWI and am looking for suggestions regarding a good set of rules for the conflict.

I have AOR but they lack the proper feel when I have gamed with them in the past. I am looking for a regimental scale with a good flair for the era.

Suggestions?

Scroll through the topics on the American Rev message board. you'll see several discussions on different rules and what people like and don't like about them.

OFM also has posted a good topic and discussion on just getting into the AWI period. Look for his and other peoples links in the topic, "Total Newbie to AWI Miniatures Questions."

Piquet"s Cartouche is a good one.

Black Powder. Easy, adaptable.

Jaz
wargamingblogs.com

Second the Black Powder.

Third the Black Powder.

Yes Cartouche is good.

Another suggestion for Cartouche

Blackpowder is my choice.

Black Powder

Check free rules for "Loose Files and American Scramble".

Black Powder, nuff said!

Black Powder, Gunds of Libety, and Patriots and Loyalists. All three are very good.

I've adapted a free set called Sons of Liberty and cleverly renamed them Sons of Liberty – Redux…

PM me if you want a copy.

Black Powder is fine and you will get plenty of players who know the system. It's a decent game if you like the mechanics. Guns of Liberty are good too and have a following on a yahoo group. British Grenadier is based on General de Brigade and has a room on the forum for support. Good scenario books too.

Check out as many as you can and see what grabs you.

AoR is really a campaign game and the combat rules are simplified in order to allow the campaign to progress reasonably quickly. My favorite rules for AWI are 1776, but they've been out of print for forever.

British Grenadiers! :-)

Love Black Powder but must do some reseach and make you own Orders of Battle

Bing

Perhaps the question to be asked is which rules should be avoided and why.

but must do some reseach and make your own Orders of Battle

Isn't that true of any rule set?

British Grenadier! is very good. Figure scale can be either 1:10 or 1:20, so you can fight many different sizes of engagements.

Units accumulate disruption points as they negotiate obstacles and receive fire. No casualties are incurred until after the unit has reached three disruption points. Unit quality is very important, as better quality units do not accumulate disruption points and can remove them more easily.

Units are organized into brigades, and your force commander must give orders to those brigades like "hold the Fraser tree lot" or "move to Sullivan's left" or "dislodge McConnell's brigade from that hill." The type of brigade order (hold, move, engage, assault) limits actions that brigade units can take. A brigade with orders to hold a terrain feature, for example, may not send one of its infantry battalions in a headlong charge at the enemy. A brigade with assault orders must move directly toward their objective. No mucking about with intricate maneuvers. The orders system eliminates much of the "gamey" behavior that players love, but history seems to deplore.

The force commander must be very active, riding from brigade to brigade to ensure his orders are accepted and rallying the dispirited.

The author has published three scenario books which together cover nearly every major engagement. The books have a nice mix of scenarios, from set piece slugging matches to sieges to running skirmishes. Even if you don't settle on the British Grenadier rules, you'll want to pick up the scenario books.

You may also wish to pick up Old Glory's source books for the AWI. link They include detailed orders of battle for every campaign, commander ratings, and brief histories.

A new set of rules for the period is Maurice. Free download on line of the light rules followed by the full rules and cards for purchase shortly.

Based on your query, I would guess that rules that stretch over many time periods are not what you want. This leaves out Black Powder unless there are period specific modifications?

British Grenadier is probably one of your best choices based on what you want.

I don't know enough about Maurice other than I like pretty much every rules set that Sam Mustafa puts out. I tend to think that Maurice may be a bit of a stretch as it is designed for Lace Wars. Many consider the AWI to be tactically different enough from the Seven Years War to warrant period modifications. I certainly do ;-)

Have not played 1776, so I can't comment. Will have to see if I can buy a set.

Patriots and Loyalists is an 'okay' set of rules. I find that the militia ratings are too granular as they have so many levels. However, the rules play well and are definitely period specific.

Our group is really going another direction. We find that playing multiple time periods means we need a core system that works well over them. What we like are rules that have period specific modifications but the core of the rules stays much the same. While I generally like rules that are a bit more detailed, for periods we don't game frequently, we are headed in the opposite direction somewhat.

Believe it or not, we have been playing DBN and these folks have an AWI supplement. These are not the rules you are looking for though ;-)

British Grenadier.

This leaves out Black Powder unless there are period specific modifications?

There are.

I've seen some pretty convincing batreps using Volley & Bayonet, which can be played at a regimental level for AWI. (Each unit is represented by a 3x1.5 inch stand which represents a whole regiment. You can also cut the scale in half to have each stand be a battalion without any trouble.)

Whole battles work out very nicely and in a reasonable time, but you do not see granularity of detail below the "send X brigade(s) to take control of that objective" level. For a whole battle, I find that to be an advantage, but if you're collecting 28mm, there's a decent chance you won't find it satisfying.

If V&B is interesting to you, you can go to link to see some scenarios, though the AWI scenario there is in "wing scale" to make the game larger on the table, which is basically zoomed in 4x from normal.

Of course the more period-specific rules are good as well.

My other suggestions don't scale up to Regiments, so I'll forgo them.

Guns of Liberty or British Grenadier.
Margard-
There are AWI mods for Black Powder? Do you mean the "Last Argument of Kings" supplement? I know there's an AWI AAR in the orignal volume, but was unaware of any rule mods.

Margard-
There are AWI mods for Black Powder? Do you mean the "Last Argument of Kings" supplement?

The question was "there are period specific modifications?"

To which the answer is – there are. The whole idea of BP is that you take the basic game structure and by defining the stat lines for your units and deciding what "special rules" apply to each unit, you modify the basic rules for a given period. In fact BP actually says that the list of "special rules" is not definitive and that players are encouraged to add additional ones where they feel the need.

The "Last Argument of Kings" supplement doesn't specifically cover the AWI.

I know there's an AWI AAR in the orignal volume, but was unaware of any rule mods.

Just take a look at that example and you'll see what I mean.

Black Powder incorporates what is sometimes referred to as the "toolbox" approach to wargames design. It means you have to do a bit of work yourself – but isn't that part of the fun?

I agree. But I'm lazy.

Carnage and Glory 2. Best. Wargame. Ever.

Best. Wargame. Ever.

Oh. No. It. Isn't.

Has anyone use MaurIce for the AWI yet I have heared that it could be good but trying to find out before I start basing my Figs as I am also looking at British Grenadier which is based different.

Carnage and Glory must be meant for a special group of wargamers. Pity the poor guy who is continually typing at the keyboard, I'd rather be throwing dice and moving the miniatures around, and trading helpful encouragement from the opposition.

The game master runs the computer. Most games I have put on (non- C and G) the game master does not play. And I spend less time on the computer than I did with my nose in the rule book looking for the right chart.

Magard I would invite you to play a game with me and see if you like it.

The game master runs the computer. Most games I have put on (non- C and G) the game master does not play. And I spend less time on the computer than I did with my nose in the rule book looking for the right chart.

Thank you for the kind invitation, but that's not at all my cup of tea. Computer moderated rules, although I'm sure some people enjoy them, are just too much like my real work for me. I wargame to relax! (And, yes, I have tried playing CM rules.)

Like you as well, I don't want to spend time with my nose in a rule book. If I cannot play the game with just a one or two page QRS, then again, I'm really not interested.

My response above was not a dig at C and G in particular, but a response to your "Best. Wargame. Ever" comment. I thought we might possibly get into slapstick – "Oh. No. It Isn't!" – "Oh. Yes. It. Is!", but you didn't bite!

Any set of rules is only the "Best. Wargame. Ever" in your personal opinion. Others will disagree. Such is life.

Its funny because I like C&G for its lack of charts. One little handout and a measuring stick is all you need. It's funny but when you take all the charts and so on out of the game I actually find it more relaxing. I can focus on strategy rather than rolling a 6.

After the first time playing I was not a fan. But after playing again I realized it was the GM and not the rules.

I played a game of Sharpe Practice last week. I had a great time. But because the leader card was not drawn for 3 turns I had one unit not move. For 3 turns. Stategy blown. And in reality why would the unit not move? In C&G that would never happen. I could however, preset the fatigue level of the unit to reflect their march to the battle. So they would have joined the fight but would have been less effective than fresh troops.

So maybe that is the real difference. Black Powder is a game. Entertainment. (says so in the front of the book) C&G gives you the option to really dial in the details. Making it more like a simulation.

Yes. It. Does.
:)

Sharp's Practice isn't meant to be large scale like C&G. It's time frame is more minutes than hours so not moving for 3 turns amounts to 3 minutes of 'real' time. You're really comparing apples to oranges. Now compare C&G to Flint and Steel, then you have a good argument.

One little handout and a measuring stick is all you need.

Yup. Same goes for BP. Oh, and some dice. It's not a wargame without dice!

Black Powder is a game. Entertainment.

BP is indeed a game. Therein lies its attraction. But it has surprisingly good "period feel" nonetheless. The special rules go a long way towards that, giving you ways of "dialing in the details".

I could however, preset the fatigue level of the unit to reflect their march to the battle. So they would have joined the fight but would have been less effective than fresh troops.

That is easily done in BP, too.

I LIKE this thread, because nobody is blasting others for "playing it wrong". We could use that attitude on a few Boards I could name!

There is no wrong answer.

I like 1776. It is probably 35 years OOP, but it shows up occasionally on eBay.
It fatures simultaneous movement, and the tried and true "add up a bunch of positive factors, subtract a bunch of negative factors, roll dice" approach so beloved of rules in the 70s.

I tried Compleat Brigadier, but did not care for it because it had no die rolling. Everything was predictable. Some may like this, though.

PAtriots and Loyalists needs you to step outside of the box and accdept it. I loved the way that small units, like 30 man grenadiers, were powerful until they took a hit, and then became mortal.
Every time you are shot at, YOU roll the dice in a reaction test for being shot at. Some do not like that. I do.

British Grenadier needs to be followed exactly to give a good period feel. It may not work for newbies who get upset when they find ou they "diid it wrong". It needs to be studied to give the "Correct" game, and then it's fun.

I have settled for Age of Reasonm for games where your units are regiments, and The Sword and the Flame for games where the figures are individually based.
AoR is NOT wedded to 12 figure units. The rules specify what happens with larger and smaller units. No probl;ems!

I use "Guns of Liberty". Easy to learn and plays smoothly.

British Grenadier!

I like BG, but I can honestly say that other than Washington's Wars (ugh), I haven't played any of these other systems. Just want to be up front about that. :-)

Here's a few simple rules:
Rule 1 Don't invade Canada – it never turns out well.
2. Forget New York City – it's waterways make it impossible to defend against British warships (and it's full of Tories anyway)
3. Don't trust Charles Lee, Benedict Arnold or the Continental Congress
4. If going to Valley Forge or Morristown, take plenty of sandwiches

>3. Don't trust Charles Lee, Benedict Arnold or the >Continental Congress

Which leaves you with a number of less-than-stellar performers to lead your lads…

I have been trying Black Powder for War of 1812 and have been generally happy with it, although the rules were not all that concise, so it took a lot of leafing back and forth to understand them or find specific rules. How does British Grenadier compare? It seems a bit more period specific adn detailed but I wonder if it would play slower than BP?

We use our own version based on "Sons of Liberty" by Wes Rogers. They are free here.

link

British Grenadier is probably the best simulation game of the period that I've played to date and most accurately represents the units quality and combat abilities on the table, but this comes at a cost. It has some grey areas and the movement and combat system can be a bit complex and time consuming. It really does take a few games to get used to it and needs to be played regularly or you forget many little details. Basically, you need to put effort into the game, but it does leave you feeling as if you were commanding troops and dealing with the difficulties of the time.

Black Powder is great if time is an issue or you just want to play with your toys and not have to deal with any overly complex rules. A fast and fun system, but can give you a feeling of the rules not quite capturing the period to satisfaction.

Maurice is just flat out fun IMHO and for sure throws a monkey in your plans giving surprises in the game. It plays different to anything I've ever played and takes a little getting used to the tempo which may seem slow at first, but really isn't once you get going. If your looking for unpredictability and a flair of spirit then I highly recommend it.

Christopher

I would also vote black powder

take care

andy