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"Lace Wars vs SYW?" Topic

16 Posts

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Odins Warrior23 Mar 2012 2:58 p.m. PST

With regard to uniform books and such, can "Lace Wars" material be used as a reference for SYW uniforms?

If there are differences, are they material like the change of facing colors or minor things like the cut of the coat (which will be con tolled by the mini)?

Just curious if they can be used as painting guides for Prussian, French and Austrians.


Arteis23 Mar 2012 3:08 p.m. PST

"Lace Wars" is a generic term for that whole period, including the Seven Years War.

timurilank23 Mar 2012 4:16 p.m. PST


Are you referring to Lace Wars, the two volume work by Fred and Liliane Funcken?

If you are looking for Seven Year War uniform specific material, then do look at the offerings from 18rh Century Press; Prussia, Austrian and now Russia has been added to the uniform series.


Good value for the money.

I am currently building a SYW French army and the bulk of uniform information has been gleaned from



Frederick Supporting Member of TMP23 Mar 2012 4:26 p.m. PST

Uniforms from early in the period were a fair bit different from the later uniforms – not to mention that that the units were often different as well (regiments come, regiments go)

I have used the relevant Ospreys but I agree with Robert that Seven Years War project has great material – especially for the French

John the OFM23 Mar 2012 4:55 p.m. PST

Well, this
has uniforms from the Marlburian armies up through the French Revolution, depending on the nation involved.
The bulk of the coverage for France and Britain is the War of Austrian Succession and Seven Years War.

"Lace Wars" is a cute way of saying that MOST, but not all, of the unifprms had some amount of lace.
Funcken goes in to great dfetail on the actual buttonhole lace for the British. It could be quite complicated and varied by regiment.

Personal logo Der Alte Fritz Sponsoring Member of TMP23 Mar 2012 11:16 p.m. PST

Guerre en Dentelle sounds so much better than Lace Wars. (shudder!)

Big Red Supporting Member of TMP24 Mar 2012 8:49 a.m. PST

"Guerre en Dentelle sounds so much better…"

Don't dental hygienists take care of that?

138SquadronRAF24 Mar 2012 11:11 a.m. PST

Funcken's "Lace War" is a good overall summary of the 18thC. It has some stronger sections, and some weaker (basically the smaller powers).

If you want great details the Pengel & Hunt books are the best source I've found.


abdul666lw24 Mar 2012 1:07 p.m. PST

"Guerre en Dentelle sounds so much better…"
Because of 'Leather and Lace'? The Lace Wars Yahoo group was indeed rated 'adults only' for some months probably because of such confusion grin
Then, in the very old French expression 'Guerre en Dentelle' Dentelle indeed refers to the doily-type lace at the shirt collar and cuffs of the officers trying to surpass their counterparts in courtesy ("Shoot first – No, I pray you, shoot first"). The brittle material symbolizing a 'restrained' (and to later eyes somewhat artificial) type of warfare.
While in the English-speaking word 'lace' is Lace Wars' is generally taken as referring to 'ribbon' (French galon) as in buttonhole lace or livery lace.

Thus, those who think 'leather & lace' when reading 'Lace Wars' are closer to the historical truth: Dentelle is indeed widely used (I'm told evil grin) by Victoria's Secret…

Narratio28 Mar 2012 11:42 p.m. PST

Thus, those who think 'leather & lace' when reading 'Lace Wars' are closer to the historical truth: Dentelle is indeed widely used (I'm told ) by Victoria's Secret…
My brain threw up a picture of every Victorias Secret model carrying a musket, wearing lingerie, and a Grenadier helmet, lined up charging across a field…

Sorry, gotta'go lie down for a while.

summerfield29 Mar 2012 5:54 a.m. PST

The main changes were
1. Infantry coat had turnbacks and became a tighter fit.
2. The Cuirassier helmet was replaced by the tricorn
3. The Saxon Army went from Red uniforms to white.
4. Reduction in ranks from 6 to 5 to 4 and finally three in the 1740s.
5. Introduction of battalion guns
6. Lightening of artillery.
7. Introduction of Hussars to most countries and their gradual regularisation.
8. Dragoons increasingly became battle cavalry
9. Introduction of light troops and their eventual regularisation later in the century.

You can see many of these trends in the books that I have written. Should finish the Prussian Musketeers 1740-86 by June but having a new full time job 300 miles from home has caused much frustration as the books are never in the correct place.


abdul666lw30 Mar 2012 7:04 a.m. PST

"My brain threw up a picture of every Victorias Secret model carrying a musket, wearing lingerie, and a Grenadier helmet, lined up charging across a field…"
Hope Eureka, Shadowforge or Raging Heroes will seize the inspiration grin
Many Imagi-Nation builders dream to add a 'Maiden Guard' to their forces; and they are 'imaginative'….

TMP link

AICUSV05 Apr 2012 6:12 a.m. PST

The uniforms do appear to be a much tighter fit – judging from the TMP Link.

abdul666lw06 Apr 2012 5:44 a.m. PST

Napoleonic uniform, but… YouTube link

Come In Nighthawk30 Apr 2012 8:01 a.m. PST

Hmmmmmm, the one French "spy" at the end of that segment -- the one signalling with a torch, and wearing a coat, a half-shift (or camisole), a pair of stockings & garters, and a smile, would make a VERY interesting addition to the Eureka "Imagi-Nation" offerings… :LOL:

abdul666lw30 Apr 2012 12:00 p.m. PST

With an empty hand waving hello / good bye she would find her place in any camp vignette
There's many a bonnie lass in the Howe o Auchterless
There's many a bonnie lass in the Garioch
There's many a bonnie Jean in the streets of Aiberdeen
But the floower o' them aw lies in Fyvie-o

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