"Curious as to What's Become of Wargames Foundry" Topic

I know that the Wargames Foundry underwent a major staff shakeup a while back, losing several longtime sculptors, most notably veterans Mark Copplestone and the Perrys. Many anticipated upcoming releases hang in limbo even now, and their familiar color ads in the back of Wargames Illustrated have all but dissapeared. Does anyone know what happened? ~Mike

Well you know what we know. You simply can't replace top sculptors, and once word got around that they were in trouble on getting releases out, I think a lot of people wrote them off. That said, they have released a few models - the Swiss, presumably some Street Violence, and the odd 'pre cast' range.

Add in the problems over pricing, which is confusing and high and must be reducing sales, and postage, which is ridiculous on small orders, and you may have the answer.

I think the trouble is that people liked the Perries and Copplestone, and the otehr sculptors to a lesser degree, and they have simply followed them.

Foundry's plus is the back catalogue, but even that is not available all the time.

I hope Foundry makes a quick comeback and takes a shot at Perry, Copplestone and Crusader with new releases. Releasing older stuff just confirms their weakness. High pries is OK if the value is brought back to the customers. My favourite returns from Foundry is a huge range with lots of variants and a great website.

C'mon Foundry. Wakey...Wakey

I hope that they will survive. Foundry have many great miniatures.

The website was awful! The new one is better. I hope they stickl around as well, but how are they going to make a comeback?

Damien, I don't think that re-releasing older ranges is a sign of weakness. It is just acknowledging that they have disappointed old customers. Where else can you get Sikh Wars figures, for one thing. Now that they are OOP, no one.
The NW Frontier range is solid, and vast, not flashy, but very competently done. Ditto, their Franco Prussian War, SYW Prussians and Cossacks range, and others I could name.

One reason many gamers swore by Foundry was their vast ranges of very nice figures, which at one time were, if not competitively priced, at least not totally out of line. Now with these ranges unavailable, they are merely sworn at.

I tried to email them and my server said my email was undeliverable,what's that all about?They had some WW1 figures why stop selling lines they already have?

I hope they find new sculptors quickly. I have several hundreds of their miniatures, and willing to buy more, if I see something I like. Unfortunately, many of their ranges are not complete. Still no Thracians noble cav, no skirmishers, no ... I am also waiting for more then four years for more SYW Prussians, and might buy some now from another manufacturer.

This will sound harsh, but if they "crashed and burned", we might all be happier. One reason, they'd be gone and no longer open to constant complaints. Secondly, and I'm not sure on this point; someone else might assume the rights to the old catalog and re-release those lines we all loved. They might even get it right "again", and allow folks to order individual figures.

Hopefully it won't take a total collapse to bring it about, but Ogdenilulimus is on the right track. Foundry needs to bring back a balanced value to the customer.

The success of every business, hobby related or not, is based on the demand for some service or quality they provide. It doesn't really matter what demand the company satisfies, as long as they differentiate themselves from their competition and they take care not to let some aspect of their operation upset the value balance they represent to their customers.

Take Old Glory, for instance. Some bash the quality of OG figures, but they are secure in their niche as having extensive lines of decent figures for great value. What's happening to Foundry is the same thing that would happen to OG if they were to raise prices too much or let their molds deteriorate too far. Or if they allowed some other manufacturer to occupy their niche and seriously show them up in some way.

In my opinion, Foundry eliminated any excess good will they had with their customer base when they changed their packaging and pricing structures a couple years ago. For the most part, the faithful remained faithful, if a little bruised. Had Foundry taken care that nothing else happened to our perception of their quality and service, most of us would have forgiven and forgotten after a few years, relegating the whole thing to, "Remember the good old days when..." stories.

Unfortunately, their single greatest value (to me, at least), quality, has been seriously challenged by other manufactures. Foundry simply doesn't dominate the market anymore. No longer is there reason to put up with less than awesome service or less than complete lines or the loss of old lines for no apparent reason. There are now probably a dozen 28mm manufacturers that rival the legendary Foundry quality and Foundry needs to either take their quality to a new level or add to their value proposition in some other way.

Awesome customer service probably wouldn't be enough at this point though. It's kind of a passive change that would take too long to have a real impact. Similarly, making a serious effort to complete partial lines would perhaps take too long to help them now. Going back to selling singles might do it, though. That would make a huge statement and represent true value to their customers.

Just my 2 cents worth.

All I got to say is lower the prices. I would buy from them if they were more in line with average prices. My particular beef with them is the price of the revenant elves.

I got into wargaming after coming across Foundry on the web and seeing their World of the Greeks range. The figures were just great and I have ordered lots in bulk buys. I would certainly make smaller orders on a more regular basis if only the postage was not so high. Let's face it after the initial outlay most people tend to add to their collections by buying a few packs at a time.

Now I'm moving into WWII and find it tempting to add to that collection first as the postage from other manufacturers is more competitive and makes it more affordable to make small orders here and there. I reckon Foundry must lose a lot of custom from buyers put off by the postage. I know some think the figures are pricey too but for the quality they offer I don't think they are unreasonable.

I truly hope that stick around because I really like the figures, and if they do go under the people they employ are going to be more seriously affected by it than the rest of us.

I have a couple of issues with Foundry, but before I get into them, they make great figures. I used to stay away from them because of the cost and rationalize their quality, but they are really beautiful. I added some Foundry Hundred Years War to my OG figs and they really stand out. I have most of the Mountain Man packs and they are some of the nicest gaming figures I've ever seen.

That said, the prices are outrageous. Yes you can save money by ordering overseas, and buying in bulk, but that isn't how I purchase my miniatures. $2.50-$3.00 per foot figure is just way out of line with the rest of the market in the States. There is no way I can make sense of it either. Does it really cost that much more to create and manufacture figures at Foundry? Is their AWI stuff really that much better than OG, Front Rank, or Redoubt?

I also have an issue Foundry's lack of respect for their customers. I have heard rumors about public statements made by those who run the company who see the historical market the same as the same as the fantasy market, their disdain for keeping costs in line, their willingness to totally exploit the market. However the true measure of their lack of respect for the market is their willingness to jerk most of their historical lines off the market. There are no other sources for 25mm Maxmillian--let alone Franco Prussian figures, tribal specific Native Americans, and heaps of figs for other projects that plenty of schmoes like me were had half-completed. Astonishing. I think it is great that the Crimean and ECW stuff is coming back, but why do we have to jump through the expense and hassle of calling Britain to get it. What about the rest of the lines?

As the rest of you do I'm sure, I do lots of projects involving hundreds of figures. There is no way I would ever commit to using Foundry figures as the basis for those projects. The cost and Foundry's undependability vastly outweigh their quality in my judgement.

Maybe GW will pick them up. Change the core troops to plastc for a buck and a half a figure, get six bucks for command, and twenty for artillery with two crew.

Foundry is creative. Their figures are tops in most lines, if a little small compared to Redoubt, Renegade, Front Rank and some others. Using their marketing schemes, I average orders between 8 and 20 packs of Napoleonics in ranges that still pack 4 horse and riders and 8-10 foot. The cost averages around $3.09 for a beautifully sculpted and cast horse and rider or $1.27 for an excellent infantry figure in the ten pack or $1.55 in the packs with 8 figs. Not great, but in line with other manufactures with similar variety and quality. Occasionally they add extra free packs, which lowers the price even more. And if you can part with their limited edition figures which you got for free by selling them, the price is even lower when you deduct the amount you received. Recently I ordered 3 Deals and they added a free pack and a free figure. This dropped the cost to around $1.10 for a foot fig and $2.73 for a horse and rider. What's there to complain about if you like Napoleonic figs. Service over their website was great, too.

Foundry has lost some of it's "stars" like Copplestone and the Perry's, but don't count them out just yet. If everyone would use the same creativity I see on the tabletop in painting, terrain and OOB's, as well as rule interpretations, then matching the creativity of Foundry is possible. Let them know about figs you want that are no longer being cast. Let them know about the lines you want finished, with the specific items. If they still hold the copyright, and enough ask, they may respond. There are no guarantees, but if the demand exists it may happen as it did for ECW.

Afterall, they are running a business, a business that has been a mainstay of our hobby for years, and I hope we can count upon them to be around for years to come. If you are new to our hobby are reading all of the bashing of Foundry, take it with a grain of salt. While much of it is deserved in the minds of some, try 'em and make up your own mind.

From a person who has bought substantial Foundry DA, Sikh War,Indian Mutiny and NWF collections, and who used to swear by Foundry, I have become slowly, but probably irretrievably disenchanted. I wont go into the reasons why as they have already been tabled above by others, but even now they treat us poor colonials with something bordering on contempt. If we buy a pack of figs from Australia, it costs GBP12, but we are informed that the pack is sent 'post free'. Now, if consumers in the UK only pay GBP 8.50 (I thinks thats right), what is the difference between the two? Some sort of poll tax, stamp duty or just an attempt to fool us poor colonials?

I used to get Foundry figures in a week costing only 15% postage. Oh, for the good old days....

John

Well spoken TomTolliver, and everyone else. All worthy grievances, to be sure. I don't disparage Foundry thier marketing strageties, As some have on this board in the past; the idea of free, exclusive minis with "X" deal is fine by me. But there's still a lot to be desired customer-relationswise. And, can anyone find a customer service email address on their site? I couldn't.
I must admit, their prices have crept over my tollerance level (Games Workshop passed it years ago), and their absurdly homognized price structure really ticks me off...while I was once able to order three different assortments of accessories for the price of one blister, I now have to settle for $18 worth of one lot. A local store has, on their rack, now and forevermore, an entire pack of celtic 'Battersea type shields! I mean, come ON, guys! If you aren't willing to sell me product in increments I can reasonably deal with, it's time to call it quits.
I assumed, perhaps wrongly, due to the more closeknit wargaming community in Britain, that someone would have the inside scoop on what went wrong. Guess I'll just have to wait and see.

As for the re-release of the ECW line being a result of consumer input...Ha! The only reason for the appearance of these miniatures is the publication of Warhammer ECW.
Don't be fooled...with ShieldWall out I expect to see Normans and rhe rest of the Senlac Hill crowd showing up any minute.......
I wish Old Glory would would move on some of these "gaps" in "miniature history", and take market share away from those who don'y deserve it.

There are things I don't like about the Foundry, but postage is certainly not one of them.

I have absolutely no problem ordering 8 or more packs a go (i.e. order values in excess of 100 euros). Foundry recognizes this as the way they prefer to business, and offers free postage.

What about the rest? They whack me with a 20-30% postage surcharge regardless of order size! Which brings their "cheap" prices pretty much in line with Foundry...

I personally like Foundry (I'm into Napoleonics so its still a good value for me). I hope they turn things around and start producing again. I'd like to see them rethink their pricing for over seas customers. Until they do, any "Foundry must haves" will be purchased from Wargames World (price based on current exchange rate and actual shipping cost) or from the discount bins at local hobby shops.

By the way, I highly recommend Wargames World to overseas buyers. I bought 8 packs of Russians for $126.00 (shipping included) that would have cost $144 direct from Foundry. Best of all, Wargames World has a customer service e-mail address (and they repond quickly to inquiries).

what amuses me about foundry is that their website has enough 'on the design bench' models - i.e. those which have been completed but not released - but has released none of them because of their bulk buy system. rather than being able to pay 8.50 for a pack when i want them, i have to wait until all 8 packs are released simultaneously in a £52 deal i'm never going to afford.

also, the revenant elves are probably the most expensive figures i know (excluding, of course GW's offerings) - £4.25 a model in some packs, as far as i'm aware

No comment from me, as I am a Foundry fan!! I loved the Imperial Romans they do, and they still rock. My son loves them too and we sit down and "paint" together (...OK His look like a Jackson Pollock afterwards, but what the hey he is only 7...) The only thing I tend to miss is the monthly "freebie" they used to hand out with your order... As I started buying in late 2000 or so I don't really see the price issue and I can still get all the bits I need here in the lcal store, so I hope that they recover because they still have my vote.

I agree, I like their new fantasy ranges (especially the elves) but jeez are they expensive for what you get. Two figures a blister? I know you're unlikely to buy multiple copies of blisters the way you are, for example, Napoleonic foot troops but this is ridiculous. You're only ever going to need one Napoleon & staff blister, but that blister is the same price as two elves and contains 6 figures? 8? Either way it's considerably better value.

I think they are counting too much on selling complete 'releases' and have lost sight of the smaller market that buy a few blisters at a time.

I love foundry's figures. But as a former retailer, I'd have to say that customer service issues are a big problem with their line! Nearly every order our store ever got from them had some minor error in it; we'd call our rep (poor Howard) and he'd call them, and they'd offer to make it good "on the next order." They'd bill us for orders they'd messed up, and refuse to ship more product until we paid for the order that wasn't right in the first place. This summer I got a direct order from them, only one pack of figs, and it was the wrong pack! They don't have a functional email address. They don't provide good instructions for overseas customers on how to handle an error on an order... It's a serious pain in the butt.

Foundry's products are great, and I think their prices are fine--you get what you pay for, and figure for figure they're comparable with Games Workshop. But their failure to realize that the damage bad service quality and little concern for the differences between the fantasy and wargames market translates into declining sales will eventually kill them everyplace but the UK. I'd love to know what they're thinking...

"I assumed, perhaps wrongly, due to the more closeknit wargaming community in Britain, that someone would have the inside scoop on what went wrong."

Well you probably won't get the scoop (whatever that is) because no one outside of Foundry senior management knows exactly WHY all this happened.

There is much speculation, but the only real facts are that blisters came in, prices were hiked, anyone buying outside of Nottingham (including the UK) got stung for premium price UNLESS THE CUSTOMER FIT ***THEIR*** PREFERRED MAIL ORDER STRATEGY, the three top sculptors left, other sculptors followed, they haven't put out much historical product, and despite the numerous 'what is the pricing scheme this month?' ploys, they haven't put prices or postage down.

All this baloney about 'call our mail order guys' to get stuff you should be able to get across the web, and the joke that is pre-casts, is just so much hassle. Just about every other company in the hobby falls over backwards to do the customer service bit well. Foundry have decided that that paradigm is wrong, and that we aren't buying in big enough chunks and that figures are too cheap, so they will single handedly change the rules. Well, if they took a bath on mail order as a result, they deserve it. I think they just got a little too big for their boots, and have paid the price.

Sounds about right, Flash. Their lineage to GW has become all too apparent.

Recently, the new Foundry figs here in the states have started coming in smaller packs, and the prices have started falling.

The elves, fairies and gangers come in smaller packs of 2-3 figs each, and the prices are a good deal lower.

Something is happening, but what?

-Daniel

In my humble opinion, Foundry guys have made two great mistakes:

a) They have tried to enter the Fantasy market with a expensive fantasy line, but without a good game system supporting it. Only companies with perfect figures, elaborated game systems and appealing background (GW, i-Kore, Rackham) can survive in the fantasy market offering expensive figures.

b) The have tried to be the "GW" of the historical market, forgetting that fantasy and historical are very different worlds. Historical gamers usually need tons of models, and Foundry figures simply had become too expensive. Moreover, they sell their figures in blisters (and "collections"), but depending on the game system, historical gamers compose their armies in many different ways, so, for many gamers, Foundry blisters (and collections) include completely useless figures. The last "gift" of Foundry is that some lines include blisters of 6 figures that a few months ago were sold in blisters of 8 figures at the same price (pirates, for example)!!!! You can also see now cavalry blisters of 3 instead of 4 figures (renaissance, for example).

To conclude, Foundry guys: if you want to see my money again, forget Fantasy and sell individual figures at reasonable prices.

Pedro.

Crusoe the Painter - please explain more about smaller packs and cheaper prices. Have seen over here in the UK some "taster" or "preview" packs - perhaps 6 figures from forthcoming ranges rather than 5 (yes only 5 - when it 's "great" orcs) but the price has remained constant.

They do seem to be showing small signs of returning to the offers of old. But 2 years ago there were ranges of the month, internet discount weekends, 8-10 figures per pack etcetera.

If things do not pick up for them soon I suspect they'll be having a big sale to raise cashflow. I'm waiting till then.

Well, I suppose I'm the only guy on the planet who appreciates Foundry's marketing. I *love* the feeling of being able to place an order for their expensive-but-worth-it figs - it represents 'making it' for me, like taking my wife out to a nice restaurant or browsing for cars.

I also love the anticipation of waiting for that slim white box, and have a blast poring over the color catalog pages of their new releases. I'm flattered by their calculated fawning, the "you're a valuable customer" special offers, the 'free' blisters in every pack. It's transparent and insincere but it works for me. That's Marketing.

I've been alarmed at the exodus of talented (and even not as talented) sculptors from the company, and put off by their emphasis on odd niche ranges that I have no interest in (Fairie Elves? Renaissance Orcs?!? C'mon, Foundry, nobody makes a decent Mongol figure yet, with apologies to Steve Barber). But I take pride in my painting and my army's appearance, and I'd rather have one army of Foundry figs than three from virtually any other company.

Foundry's new website, their new 'whole collection' pricing structure, and their continued emphasis on sound marketing and business practices give me hope for their future. I for one plan on buying more figures from them in the coming year, not less.

Other Dave

Cornelius--some of their fantasy range was tested here in the US (and I assumed everyplace else) in packs which retailed for around $8 US, for two figures. Comparable to Reaper and other popular fantasy lines, except you still had to buy a figure you might not want to get a figure you DID want! I recall seeing a bunch of the elves this way, about a year ago. The Renaissance Orc line was sold one figure to a pack, with extras (snotlings, extra weapons, etc.) for that same price. Sales on those in our store were dismal.

I hear ya, Other Dave! I'd rather have Foundry hoplites comprising my Corinthian army than anything else. But if I have to order two or three times to actually get the pack I asked for, well....nuts to that.

Regarding the "exodus of talented scupltors" from Foundry I remember an interview to the Perrys, saying (more or less) that they have leaved Foundry because the company was turning into Fantasy, and they thought this was a "wrong way". Don't forget Perrys also work for GW ;-)

Otherdave, would you not feel even better if they were less-expensive-and-more-worth it? Or do you subscribe to theory that if it isn't expensive, it can't be any good?

What are you, some kind of a Communist?

Other Dave

Smileys of course - Of course I'd be thrilled if Foundry lowered their prices. But that's true of all of the luxuries that I buy. I'm not certain that that's a smart move for them though: if Foundry lowered their prices, I'd probably buy more of their figs, but spend the same amount of money.

On the other hand, if they charged more for their figs, I'd probably still buy them, at least for the periods that I'm interested in. But I'm a figures snob; I'd rather do without figures for a period that I love than spend time and money acquiring and painting figures that I consider substandard, which is virtually all that is being produced nowadays.

And for the record, a lot of the newer Foundry fails to meet my standard. I'd be embarrassed to put out their 'new' EIR range for sale right next to the Perrys' masterpieces.

Other Dave

Foundry are now advertising for new staff (and in lots of roles) so they aren't dead yet.

Foundry Mongols...YES! YES! YES! Any price!

Take into account that the Perrys, Copplestone, Saleh, etc. will no longer work for Foundry. So, any new line (even mongols!!! ;-) ) will not reach the "traditional" Foundry quality. For instance, have you seen the new swiss? They are just poor shadows of past glories ....

And the sad thing is, they are still better than 90% of the figures available today - in fact, IMHO they are better than most of the new Foundry ranges! If I had any interest at all in that period, I'd snap 'em up in a New York minute, and you betcher ass I'd buy Mongols that good.

Other Dave

IMHO the real sad thing is that Foundry now sell poor quality new figures at the same price they sold good quality "old" figures. And sorry, but I can't agree that the new Foundry swiss range is better than the 90% of current figures. IMHO (again) any new medieval release from Perry Miniatures, Front Rank, Corvus Belli, Black Tree, etc. is better than these "head oversized" swiss. They appear very well painted in the web page, but take a while to analyze their anatomy and you'll see very strange things....

The '3 figure' packs are, I understand, an experiment with US retailers - 3 assorted figures for under $10, from several lines - vikings, cuttroats,samurai, elves (including the big characters) dwarves, war-orcs (those are in twos) and little orclings (in sixes). Three different groupings for Street Violence - cops, suits and gangers. You may have to ask your retailer about them and get him to call Foundry N. America (877-360-9111) and speak to the always-helpful Howard Whitehouse.

Mexican Jack Squint - thank, that explains why I haven't seen them here. $10 still seems quite expensive though.

I've never had a problem with buying a Foundry blister with 8-10 figures in - that's fair given their quality. I will not pay £8.50 for 5 "street violence" figures, when I can get better value from Mark Copplestone - 5 figures for £6.

... or 6 (excelent) figures for £5 (foot) in the case of Perry Miniatures!!! That's the question: there are now lots of new miniatures sculpted by those who made Foundry the great company we remember. Moreover,all of those new figures are cheaper than the Foundry ones. So, don't worry if Foundry disappears!!! (IMHO Foundry deserves it) Its former sculptors are still alive and making good (and cheap) figs!!!

I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused; in what sense are the Perry Miniatures, Front Rank, Corvus Belli, and Black Tree medieval/renaissance SWISS figures better than the Foundry ones? I thought that the only BTD figs were Dark Ages, the Perry medieval figs were Crusaders, and the FR and CB figs HYW and WOTR? The competition for Foundry's Swiss range include such luminaries as the aptly-named Irregular and Old Glory.

I cannot believe that in our insular and shrinking hobby, anyone would wish ill on the largest of the best 28mm manufacturers in the industry, simply for charging more than you're willing to pay. Foundry provides figs as a business, while many of their 'competitors' don't even offer credit card payment!

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face! Personally, I'd rather see our hobby grow out of the garage industry, and know that the flurry of excellent figures that are now appearing on the market won't just disappear as capriciously in a couple of years.

Other Dave

I like the new website, like the Swiss, like the big heads too. It is the Foundry "style" and identity. On the prices, the only impact on me is no impulsive purchases and no extras. May not be a bad thing personally.

Still waiting for my Mongols. Will continue to wait.

I just sit and look at all my Foundry Seven Years Prussians,and I get all teary eyed,because I'll probably never see the likes again.

Just a quick observation on Foundry's charge for postage. I know that £7.50 is high, but I didn't realise how high until I placed an order with Devel Dog Designs and was charged $6. So that's £7.50 for approx 100 miles and $6 for a couple of thousand.

Unfortunatelly, Tango, this seems to be the norm with UK manufacturers.

Their shipping fees are, most of the time, just a little this side of "ludicrous".

I've ordered from Canada and Australia, and have paid a little difference between the two.

I intended to order from England, got the shipping quote and just told them I wished them the best business possible with the locals.

And I've sent packages to the UK and my mail rates are not that steep... So, this common policy seems to be killing many of their potential sales. I am not paying £15 for postage, when I know that quid can go into more models AND postage somewhere else.

When I order from the Uk, most of the time I order frm the companies that have the "orders over a £100 will make to your place, and worry not, it's on the house". Sure, that only happens once every two months or so --my gf would kill me if I was more "consistent"--, but it is well worth the wait and the saving of pennies.

Black-Tree Designs and I-Kore, are two of the most prominent in this particular practice.