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"TYW Uniforms" Topic


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10 Aug 2004 5:48 a.m. PST
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Comments or corrections?

Padraig23 Jul 2004 11:35 a.m. PST

Hi everyone! I've just started creating a French army of the TYW, can anyone tell me where I can find information on any sort of uniform worn during this period by the French, or design of regimental colours? I realize the era is pretty sparse on uniforms in a "come as you are" way, however, all I can find is the standard Osprey info on Swedish armies.

reddrabs23 Jul 2004 1:23 p.m. PST

Grey - guess what just tidied up and cannot find a good book on this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But go for grey.

If I find it I'll message but it could be some time.

John Watts23 Jul 2004 3:21 p.m. PST

Useful article at lwaonline.org.uk – follow the tree through Resources and Articles.

Gustav A23 Jul 2004 9:22 p.m. PST

The French army didn't use uniforms in the TYW, uniforms did not come into use until the 1660's.

Be carefull with the article linked to, at least the Danish and Swedish sections are filled with errors.

vexillia24 Jul 2004 1:00 a.m. PST

Captain Gars: Care to write some corrections for lwaonline.org.uk?

Gustav A24 Jul 2004 2:28 a.m. PST

I can do that, here or in an article for the webpage?
You can reach me offlist at kapten_gars@hotmail.com

Personal logo jimbomar Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Jul 2004 7:27 a.m. PST

Patrick

I just happened to be reading an article in the November 2002 Wargames Illustrated on Military Dress of the TYW. The artice is interesting as it reproduces actual drawings/paintings of troops of the the period. There are two french figures,

1. A pikemen from Lostelneau drill book Marechal des Batailles of 1647
2. Abraham Bosse costume plate of a member of the Gardes Francais during the 1630s

1. Is in 3/4 armour and helmet with buff gloves, a light gray coat and red pants trimmed yellow. The stockings are blue and the shoes brown.

2. Is also in 3/4 armour but with a brown floppy hat turned up at one side with feathers, what looks like a large white lace falling collar, and bows at his shoulders and knees. The coat is red, the pants are blue and the stockings red. The bows are yellow and the gloves brown.

I think you would be safe, based on these two figures in using a lot of blue and red, with yellow trimming in your French army!

The article talks of the heavy influence of eastern styles on western european armies and the fact that a lot of published material on dress is based on portraits done of Dutch Shuiters(militia) companies which may not be useful for actual dress of the combatants.

Regards

James Marshall

Rudysnelson24 Jul 2004 9:22 a.m. PST

Boyle has some interesting articles on the 30 yrs war in an early issue of 'Time Portal Passages' which can be seen on the MAGWEB site.

Gustav A24 Jul 2004 11:42 a.m. PST

Corrections to the lwaonline.org.uk article

"Denmark

Tarnstrom's "The Sword of Scandinavia" is a surprising fount of information.

Denmark elite units wore red, with green, blue, or yellow cuffs and stockings."
Captain Gars:
Actualy the Red or Danish regiment has no known cuff colour but the companies wore blue, red or yellow breeches not stockings or cuffs.

"Other foot wore green, (2 regiments), yellow, and red."
Captain Gars: Actualy these colours refered to the flags and not the uniforms.


"Danish harquebusiers wore light blue coats."
Doubtfull since they were rquired to have buff coats and armour, seems like a repeat of the uniform known for the Blue or life regiment.


"The first cavalry regiment wore red cassocks and the second regiment wore blue cassocks. Pants were red, blue and yellow by squadron."
There were no 1st and 2nd cavalry regiments this is the uniforms of the (Blue) Liferegiment and (Red) Danish regiment repeated for imgainary units.

"Three regiments of Brandenbergers sent to join the Poles in the 1630s defected to the Swedes, these troops are mentioned wearing 'dark' blue. So, Swedes could have some dark blue."
Captain Gars:
These defections took place in 1627 at Mohrungen in Prussia and it was 1 regiment and a couple of companie sthat defected. The infantry was combined into the famous Green regiment, there is no mentioning of them wearing blue in 1627. There is sources describing blue uniforms for the Brandenburg infantry in 1630.

Sweden
"(...) None of these books mention the Swedish field sign of the hat band. Two old accounts state that the Swedes wore a yellow hat band with blue edging on the band to identify Swedish troops. Parker's book also supports this view ( see p 301)."
I've not found this hat band anywhere in_any_swedish source
it seems like an invention using the colours of the later swedish flag. A hat band is also an unlikely field sign since it is not easy to spot and a lot of troopers would have worn helmets.

"The hat was grey felt except where noted. "
Actualy the colour fo the sweidsh hats ar enot know, infact it is not certian that felt hats were widely in use at all in the infantry prior to the 1650's. Hats are never mentioned in the Royal accounts at all as far as the issue of common uniforms are recorded.

"Militia and pre 1626 coats were tawny orange and or light grey with white trim."
What milita?? Sweden did not havea milita at that time, the pre-1626 coats woudl have been in a varienty of greys and browns, some with coloured cloth inserted in the seams. No trims.

"Officers wore white lay down collars and cuffs with a blue and yellow sash. (The sash colour is post Lutzen)."
There is very little if any evidence for a blue and yellow sash, sahses are completly absent in the 1630's portraits of Swedish officers and prior to that they are in a varient of colours and blue is very rare.

"The household cavalry dressed in blue and at least one other Regiment did also."
There was no household cavalry, Gustavus houshold troops consisted of his drabants (in buffcoats) and the lifegurd company (in grey).

"Household troops also wore Vasa livery, black and yellow
(gold)."
Purely cermonial dress worn at court.

"Known cavalry coats and possibly cuffs and trim were; Smalands = red and blue; Upplands = red and yellow; Ostgota = red and black."
These are_infantry_uniforms for regiments from those provinces and the colours were used in the 1670's and 1680's...

"Finnish cavalry wore an orange or blue coat with grey or blue pants. They wore light coloured sheepskin and fur caps of buff leather, or orange coloured hats."
Once again the dress of the Swedish-Finnish cavalry is not known, uniforms were not issued until the 1670's. The above seem to match the colours shown in the various Ospreys which are purely conjectural for the Swedish cavalry.

The author has made a honest and decicated effort but soem of his soruces are clearly misleading and draw far fetched conclusions from a very limited material.

John Watts26 Jul 2004 2:55 a.m. PST

Thanks, Captain Gars.

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