"If you had a Time Machine how would you alter Waterloo" Topic

I've been thinking about this for sometime and wanted ask this now.

If you had a time machine and was able to go back to Waterloo,what would you do to alter things so that Napoleon wins?

For myself the main thing is to get rid of Wellington and Blucher,so I would try and kill them and Napoleon would be able to win.

Now all I want here is what you would do to improve the chances of the French winning Waterloo,if you had a time machine.

So please nothing about trying to kill Napoleon or something like that.

Captain Gideon

If you had a time machine and was able to go back to Waterloo,what would you do to alter things so that Napoleon wins?

Absolutely nothing. I am glad the son of a bitch lost.

ATOMICS!

And yeah, thank goodness Napoleon lost. You'd hate to have a Europe dominated by France or Germany. He might have even compelled everyone to use the same eurocentric currency!

"What if Napoleon had a B-52 at Waterloo?"

I think I'd like to time-export Peter Hofschorer and other armchair strategists who have made careers out of nitpicking Wellington's errors to the theatre.

They could stand in as the allied Commander – I'd love to see how long they would last before they became weeping broken down wrecks under the political/operational pressure….

"What if Napoleon had a B-52?"

YouTube link

Why would I want him to win? I'm Anglo-centric.

Some HMG and 200,000 rounds of ammunition, a couple of tiger tanks, a flight of Hueys with crew, and a factory to make spare parts and a few fitters to repair things.

Defeat the Prussians, and keep any survivors pinned by the hueys, then drive the tanks through Hougomont and on to la Haye Sainte, rolling up the batteries threatening the french left flank, then roll up that flank and get the Allied army in rout.

simple really…

I've been mulling a question around for some time but didn't want to start another one of "those" threads, but since it's already started just have Wellington get whacked early on instead of one of the Duke's aides. By the time the Prince of Orange and Uxbridge get done squabbling the rot will have set in. Then, the Anglo-Dutch army is probably saved from complete destruction by the piecemeal arrival of von Bulow and the rest of the Prussians, who are defeated in detail.

My serious question was, could the Allied army have survived the early death of Wellington to fight cohesively? Wellington shared no plan, the Prince while personally brave was out of his element commanding an army, and Uxbridge is a cavalryman with little experience commanding large combined arms. If any.

But I still believe that a French victory at Waterloo would only alter the final body count. Once they unified against Napoleon, nothing could save his regime.

Maybe bring some Preparation H for Napoleon. See if he did better with that.

If we're allowed to change something in the days before the actual battle. Three possible changes:

1) If Napoleon had been more energetic post-Ligny, he might have won the campaign. The pursuit of the Prussians was late getting off and didn't press them at all as designed. Compare this to how agressively the Prussians pressed the French after Waterloo. This had alot to do with their army disintigrating.

2) The morning after Ligny, Napoleon didn't immediately ride over to find out first-hand what was going on in front of Ney. Had he got moving early, he might have pinned the British at Quatre Bras and gave them a good thrashing if they tried to bug out. 'Waterloo' might have occured right there, without the Prussians, and with more French reserves at hand.

3)If neither of these is possible, then Napoleon should have taken a larger force with him by weakening Grouchey's recon force. It was unlikely that the Prussians would have turned and attacked Grouchey, so why did he need so many troops to harass them and ascertain their movements?
A few more infantry divisions at Waterloo and perhaps a division of Dragoons would have made all the difference…Prussians or no.

I wouldn't

Tell D'Erlon to go to Ligny instead of wandering around the Belgian countryside on the 16th and get Grouchy to march to the sounds of the guns, rather than aimlessly following phantom Prussians

"What if Napoleon had a B-52?"

The bum wudda lost anyway.

Convince Napoleon to accept 1814 peace proposals

I would! The United States was on the side of France. I wonder what happens if the US got involved. That is something to think about.

I would change nothing but take a lot of pictures so I could get the uniform colours right.

Stop other time travelers from helping the French The Prime Directive must be maintained

Have Alexander the Great lead the cavalry charge

When I get my time machine finished, I'm going to make sure that I go back and make sure the French lose this time. I shall accomplish this by poisoning Napoleon with arsenic at breakfast.

I would've reminded Wellington about those troop he left in Hal.
HussarL – the Americans were already on the side of Napoleon,had been since 1812! The Americans weren't in any position to help the French because of the Royal Navy being in the way. The worst the Americans could do was draw veteran units of the British army to North America so they weren't able to fight Napoleon, which is what happened.

I would try and get there a bit early so as to ensure a good seat..otherwise alter nothing..(butterfly effect)

I would add to what I said before is that I would also bring along machine guns and some bazooka's,which'll make short work of Hougomont.

And Mapleleaf the Prime Directive will not be maintained if I have anything to say about it.

Captain Gideon

I'd go around screaming at everybody for not conforming to wargame rules, conventions and practices.

I would've reminded Wellington about those troop he left in Hal.

Well if you want to avoid an acerbic response you'd best have some pretty concrete evidence that no French forces as yet unaccounted for are shooting up the left flank…unlike the Peninsula, a complete intelligence survey including a full French ORBAT were not to hand…

Andrew Jackson with Napoleon!

Should not gone to Russia!

G'Day

Make sure Hagman and Harris don't get it.

YouTube link

Cheers

Derek

This kind of questions (may is say useless) can better placed on the fantasy board then here

The side that offered me a hot Napoleonic woman would get the services of my sniper rifle and a philosophy of kill all the generals first.

If I wanted Napoleon to win: Show up with a company of Legionne Etranger, including HMGs. Tell the Legionaires with rifles that they are not permitted to use automatic fire unless within 100 yards of the British.

If I wanted to crush Napoleon: Show up with a company of Royal Marine Commandos. Same rules of engagement.

In both cases, troops would have 2x the patrol load of ammunition. Roughly 1200 rounds per man. And then I'd film the slaughter.

No. I'd just probably try and stop Napoleon from fighting. Stop alot of guys getting killed. Tell him the Prussians will be up his arse in hours and the Russians and Austrians won't stop… Hopefully he'd listen to me as a time traveller.

If he wouldn't I'd abduct him so me and my best mate can pass our history exams and form our rock band.

Failing that I'd punch his lights out. He's the prime reason they lost, if he's out cold maybe theyd do better with out him.

Leave Ney in Paris and take Davout instead.

Steve J

Assuming Napoleon had rather better intelligence than he had on the day, he might have been better not fighting at Waterloo on the 18th at all…and making sure that Grouchy destroyed Thielmann at Wavre. That might have been a real poser for Wellington and Blucher.

Regards

Step 1 – Take Captain Gideon with me'
Step 2 – Introduce him to Napoleon as 'His Biggest Fan from the Future'.
Step 3 – When Napoleon despairingly shoots himself, pick a random drummer boy to General the army instead.

Significantly increased likelihood of French Victory.

(Step 4 – come back alone)

Pat

Sneak Andy Jackson, the US army and every mercenary you can find onto the battlefield-switch Ney with Grouchy-use Puckle Guns(Product Improved) and balloons. Right! Off you go!

I would change nothing but take a lot of pictures so I could get the uniform colours right.

We'd still say your minis were wrong.

Hmmm

Well, I am not quite as anti-Napoleon as some of my fellow TMPers – if for no other reason than we was, with all his faults, miles ahead of the brainless leadership that the bred-out House of Bourbon had to offer

I agree that having Davout would be a good idea – especially to harry the Prussians hard after Ligny, to give a little more direction to Grouchy, to remind Jerome that his attack was a diversion and to ensure that the attack on the British line had a little bit of coordination between artillery, infantry and cavalry

As to not changing the outcome, if Napoleon had managed to crush the Prussian and British army and then had agreed to generous terms, the Seventh Coalition might have had trouble staying together – the Brits were pretty much taxed-out, the Russians were moving with the speed of a glacier, and the Austrian Emperor might have remembered his fondness for his son-in-law sitting on the French throne

Well, If it were possible to do something, ANYTHING, that might alter the timeline and prevent WWI- I'd do it. Davout might have done the trick-he might have had Grouchy's wing and forced Blucher to choose betwen savng Wellington or saving himself.

Maddaz111, I think the sight of one huey would have done it- you could leave the rest at home!

On the other hand- the sight of any of that stuff might have united both armies in their fight against the aliens!

Sane Max do you have some kind of problem with me?

Captain Gideon

Stop it raining with my magical powers.

Spike Wellington's drink.

Make sure the battle started much earlier.

Make sure Napoleon did not divide his forces, since we all know he should have ignored the Prussians who would then have turned up too late if the battle had started earlier.

Get a good spot in Brussels to watch Napoleon's triumphant march into the city.

Write a book – Waterloo, A French Victory.

I'd tell Wellington to make sure those bloody Belgians didn't ruin his ridge, by turning it into that mound.

1) Find the missing footage in the Russian archive it is most likely being stored in, and release the full four-hour version.

2) Explain to the special effects guys that cannonballs do not explode.

3) Completely re-shoot the charge of the Scots Greys to show how it actually happened (including French line lancers instead of Imperial Guard ones).

4) Include some Dutch-Belgians and Brunswickers.

5) Try and amend the script so that Wellington and Napoleon get something more than a series of one-liners from poorly researched "famous quote" booklets.

"Right you lot, smarten yourselves up! Get those bloody greatcoats off and stick your plumes on! You lot – call yourselves hussars?! Get back to the baggage train this instant and get your pelisses on! What do you think this is, 20th Century warfare?! You there, yes you – write down every single detail of every uniform in the army and make sure that copies are deposited in all the national archives of the countries involved! And draw the flags whle you're at it – especially belonging to those bloody Cloggies! And you can stop sniggering – I want you to draw maps… lots of maps… and make sure they're clearly labelled, you 'orrible litle man!"

R Mark Davies please explain to me what you plan to do?

Do you have any plans to help Napoleon?

And if not then why did you post this?

As I said when I started this post was to help Napoleon win Waterloo,and some members did not follow this.

Captain Gideon

Come off it, Napoleon threw Waterloo away. He should have won, and every wargame replay usually ends up with Nap winning.

You don't need to give him anything else, just advise him not to keep cocking up his chances.

1. On the 15th, get orders to Reille – II Corps must take Quatre Bras TODAY, even if that includes forced marches and night attacks.

2. D'Erlon is to take the Roman Road into the Prussian rear. Step off at 4 PM, 16 June.

3. Ney takes Mortier's place as commander of the Guard. Keep him close to hand.

CG,

I'm British. Why therefore, would I want to help him? I was addressing my own priorities, in ensuring that certain areas would be easier for future generations to research and that none of that silly 'campaign dress' stuff would later come to pollute Napoleonic wargames.

It's my time machine – you do what you want with your time machine.

Ask a silly question, get a silly answer. ;o)

I wouldn't mention bricoles to anyone either…

I always hate it when a question like this comes up, and then invariably come the answers that modern weapons should be used. (insert face palm emoticon here).

Soooo predictable.