"French 1809 Artillery Organization" Topic

I am building the IV French Corps for the 1809 campaign. I was using Bowden's "Armies of the Danube" as my primary OOB reference. "Armies of the Danube", written in 1987, lists all the French artillery as 6 or 12 pdrs. However in reading Bowden's "Austerlitz" book, written in 1997, he goes into great detail on the development of the new artillery system with 6 pdrs replacing the 4 and 8 pounders and a basic timeline of the introduction of the new artillery. And it seems, according to Bowden in 1997, that the French artillery during the Austrian 1809 campaign was primarily composed of 4, 8 and 12 pounders with only a smattering of the new 6 and 12 pounder guns available. So I have abandoned my plan of building 6 pdr batteries based on the "Army of the Danube" artillery composition for the IV corps, 1809 campaign.

So what was the primary composition of French infantry division artillery during the Austrian 1809 campaign? Were they a mixture of 4, 8 and 12 pounders as during the Austerlitz campaign?

Do we know what, if any, specific corps had the new 6 pdr? I would guess if any were available, they would go first to the Guard.

I am particularly interested in the 4th French Corps but all information is welcome.

Any information out there?

For starters, I would take a look at what Gill or Castle have.

Most of the 6# guns were captured Austrian guns (especially after Vienna)

Hi Jagger,

I'm also working from Bowden, which I find excellent. My copy has 4,6,8, and 12 pdrs all listed. I was particularly shocked to find the horse artillery equiped with 8 pdrs!

I know there was a revised edition, I wonder if I'm using that?

The preferred French horse artillery field pieces was the Gribeauval 8-pounder.

Some people have 'determined' that the Gribeauval 8-pounder was too heavy a field piece, but that is not correct. The Gribeauval 12-pounder could be used by the horse artillery if need be.

Sincerely,
Kevin

Davout's command in central Europe had the following for artillery on 1 January 1809:

12-pounders: 14
8-pounders: 54
6-pounders: 8
4-pounders: 28
6-inch howitzers: 22
5.5-inch (24-pounder) howitzers: 4
Total: 130 pieces of ordnance

By March 1809 the Army of Germany had the following on hand:

12-pounders: 22
8-pounders: 56
6-pounders: 46
4-pounders: 20
6-inch howitzers: 20
5.5-inch howitzers (24-pounders): 16
Total: 180 pieces of ordnance.

Massena's IV Corps had the following ordnance on hand (48 field pieces), distributed 12 each to each of the 4 infantry divisions as of 28 March 1809:

1st Division (Legrand): two 12-pounders, eight 6-pounders, and two 24-pounder howitzers.

2d Division (Carra St. Cyr): same

3d Division (Molitor): same

4th Division (Boudet): same

In addition to the above, there were 12 pieces of Baden ordnance attached to the Baden Brigade in the 1st Division. The composition is the same as that of the French artillery units above.

Massena's IV Corps was a new organization that was oranized for the campaign in Germany and Austria.

This artillery distribution was made before the campaign opened and therefore before the Vienna arsenal was taken. the 6-pounders are most probably of the AN XI System, as are the 5.5-inch (24-pounder) howitzers. The 12-pounders, 8-pounders, and 4-pounders as well as the 6-inch howitzers are of the Gribeauval System.

Source: Campagne de 1809 en Allemagne et en Autriche by Commandant Saski, Paris, Nancy-1899. The book is full of primary source material, correspondence and reports on the composition of the units involved.

Sincerely,
Kevin

Ok here's a question for you Kevin! Macdonald's corps started the campaign in Italy with two divisions. The two divisions each had both an 8pdr and 4pdr battery attached.
By Wagram (where I'm building it) both divisions somewhere had lost a battery, Bowden simply lists a single battery per division but not the poundage!
I figured I would build one 4 pdr and one 8 pdr battery to hedge my bets.
Any idea what they might have been in truth?

Sorry to hijack your thread Jagger…

Pessa, I think you must have the revised version. It sounds accurate. Mine simply lists 6 and 12 pounders which he contradicts in his later Austerlitz book.

In the Austerlitz book, he states that, due to the difficult terrain, the Italian theater was the first theater to receive the new 6 pounders. Whether that means McDonald, I don't know.

Thanks Kevin. Looks like Massena's command received the new 6 pounders while Davout still had substantial 4 and 8 pounders.

Hi Jagger. Just got home and my ed is copyright 1989 and says 'revised and extended addition' in the front.

All the French lists have artillery listed by poundage – except for my corp, of course!! :(

Might just be you got a pre-revision copy.

Does look like most of 4th corp was 6 pdrs (at Wagram at least) with a battery of 4 pdrs in the 3rd division to boot…

Jagger,

Yes-Davout's III Corps plus the heavy cavalry had remained in central Europe after Tilsit and most of the Grande Armee went into Spain for the second invasion.

Massena's corps was newly organized for the 1809 campaign, as was II Corps-initially Oudinot's and then Lannes until after Essling when Oudinot got it back after Lannes's wounding and subsequent death.

There has been quite a bit of material posted on the Gribeauval System and the Systeme AN XI that was supposed to replace it. However, the only two field pieces that were put into any large production were the AN XI 6-pounder and the 5.5-inch howitzer, also referred to as the 24-pounder howitzer. The Systeme AN XI didn't actually replace the Gribeauval System, but it did supplement it.

Gribeauval 4- and 8-pounders were used in Central Europe through the 1809 campaign, some of the Guard arillery companies keeping the 4-pounder through 1811. And the Gribeauval 4- and 8-pounders were used in Spain through 1814.

Sincerely,
Kevin

Kevin,
Do you have any idea how the allocation of the 12 pieces per division to IV Corps was organized at the foot and horse battery level? Excluding the Baden equipment, there would appear to have been eight x 12 pdr, 32 x 6 pdr and eight x 24 pdr howitzers.
Thanks in advance

npm

That would depend on how the gun companies were assigned and what was available.

One of the problems for the Army of Germany in 1809 was that it was short of everything when preparing for the campaign on short notice, and that included the artillery. The senior artillery officers were scrambling, except in Davout's command, for vehicles, horses, harness and all the material needed to equip artillery companies.

Now that answer does either not address your question or totally confused everybody. On the orders of battle that I have seen the IV Corps had enough artillery to assign to companies to each infantry division, but Saski does not have any horse artillery assigned to the cavalry division. As the campaign progressed and more artillery became available, more artillery was assigned to the corps, and by 16 April IV Corps had a total of 67 pieces of ordnance with 5 French foot artillery companies, two French horse artillery companies, one Hesse-Darmstadt foot artillery company, one Baden foot artillery company and a 1/2 company of Baden horse artillery. One of the French foot artillery companies was equipped with 12-pounders and was assigned to the corps artillery reserve.

At Wagram the IV Corps artillery had grown to 88 pieces of ordnance consisting of six French foot companies, four French horse artillery companies, two Bavarian horse artillery companies assigned to the corps cavalry, and one Hesse-Darmstadt foot artillery company. The Baden artillery and the Baden Brigade were not present at Wagram.

The artillery of the corps was continually reinforced during the campaign, as was the artillery of the Army of Germany as a whole.

Sincerely,
M