"How to prevent lead rot on old (late '80s) miniatures?" Topic

I was trying to strip the paint off some late 80's games workshop figures and I had them soaking for quite a while in something called "Simple Green". (By quite a while, I mean several years.) After a few changes of solution and some scrubbing in between, the paint seems to be 99% removed. But now my figures are all this dull grey color and very rough looking, even a little pitted in places.

I thought maybe it was lead rot so I read all the posts I could find on TMP about the subject. I don't think it's lead rot because there isn't really any powdering, it's just a rough gray surface texture. But after reading all the posts I could find, I'm now a little confused about what is the best way to ensure these figs do not get lead rot, and how to best seal them.

One post I read said to soak them in 10% solution of hydrochloric acid, then rinse with distilled water, dry, and prime. (An alternate was to soak in diet coke, but for longer than the hcl. Although, how much longer was not specified.)

Another post said to soak them in white vinegar, then baking soda water, then soapy water, then rinse, dry and prime.

Well, being rather impatient I tried the vinegar solution first. THEN, I read another post that said using vinegar was really bad!

So, now I'm not sure what to do. Here are my questions:

1) what is the best method to clean up these old rough dark gray minis so they can be primed? HCL? Vinegar? Vinegar followed by baking soda? Or are all the above ok? Should I always follow up with a rinse in soapy water?

2) Is any primer ok? Or are some to be avoided with older minis?

3) I have more 80's minis to strip paint from – what is the best method for this? Perhaps something other than Simple Green? I was using it because it was non-toxic.

Oh, I forgot to mention a third method for cleaning off and preventing lead rot. This one is from George R. R. Martin's webpage.

He says to create a "mixture of 50 percent pure gum spirits of turpentine (NOT terps substitute, Caldwell warns) and 50 percent highly refined medicinal mineral oil. You need some soft cotton swabs for application. Brush off the afflicted figures, scrape away the rotted areas or the dandruff, apply the solution, gently wipe off excess, and let the figure air dry for seven days. Badly afflicted figures should actually be immersed in a tub of the solution."

He also says it "… has a nice side affect: the oil gets absorbed into the figures and gives them a sheen, restoring some gloss to figures that lost it decades ago."

So which of these methods is best?

Another post said to soak them in white vinegar, then baking soda water, then soapy water, then rinse, dry and prime.

NEVER do that. "Lead rot" is lead acetate.
The problem is that SOME lead alloys are prone to lead rot, and some are not. you never know which alloy you have until … it rots.

On SOME lead alloys, the vinegar MIGHT have been useful, but you never know. Don't take a chance.
Subjecting alloys of unknown composition to baths of acidic and then caustic solutions cannot end well.

Sadly, once lead rot has established itself, there is no real hope.

I was told back then to seal the figure with Floquil primer, which was almost a plstic skin. You should do the underside too, since lead rot also cme from glue and wood.

Besides Simple Green, I have also used Pine Sol. I think that that might give the same pitting as Simple Green, though. Some recommend brake fluid, but I have had no exxperience with that.
It might be better to not let them soak for several years, though. If the paint doesn't come off after 2 days, several years isn't going to help.

He also says it "… has a nice side affect: the oil gets absorbed into the figures and gives them a sheen, restoring some gloss to figures that lost it decades ago."

Let writers write, and chemists … chem.
That sounds like pure unalderated bull . The LAST thing I want is for the metal to "absorb" any organic chemicals before I prime it.

BTW, metallic lead is relatively harmless. Oxidized lead, which is what lead rot is, is what is poisonous. I would NOT do anything with figures already affected with lead rot, except throw them out. They are beyond saving.

What should I do with the figures I already soaked in vinegar? Just rinse them off in water and let air dry? I rinsed them with water once, and now one of them looks white…

The white is lead acetate.

All the pitted figures are effectively scrap.

Try stripping again, but take the figures out after a day or two, and don't let them soak.

The only cases of lead rot I have ever seen have been in 54mm toy soldiers like Britains, Mignot, Lucotte, etc.

Never saw a case of "modern" lead rot although I suspect some of the folks in the 70's and 80's used some pretty funky composition for their metals.

What you've got doesn't sound like lead rot to me.
The lead rot I've seen is a 'bloom' of dark crust on the miniature… and white residue.

I've got plenty of minis with a dark grey patina on them… and pitting… a lot them came that way in the package. I've read that a soak in a jug of cola can brighten them up a bit if they get oxidized like that.

I had some Rafm develope lead rot but nothing else that I know of.

The acid in vinegar is acetic acid, which reacts with lead to produce lead acetate, which breaks down into lead oxide and acetic acid……..which is why its 'lead rot', its a self sustaining reaction chain. Acording to some, scarpe off the crusty bits, rinse, dry, hope, and store the figures in a well ventilated place, not in a box or sealed display case. There is a related thing called 'tin disease' but is claimed to only occur in damp cold environments like ship wreck sites.

I don't think there is really anything you can do.

There's an article in Portal #18 which deals with the chemistry of lead rot.

I declare and interest here as one of the co-authors.

--
Martin Stephenson
Vexillia Limited: Wargames Miniatures & Accessories
vexillia.ltd.uk
gallery.vexillia.ltd.uk
pikeandplunder.vexillia.ltd.uk

25mm Ral Partha Napoleonics and Renaissance figures were partial to lead rot – I've thrown out maybe one-and-a-half to two dozen figures from these ranges over the years. When it breaks out on painted figures it looks like iron filings attracted to a magnet – nothing uglier in the hobby.

What you are describing sounds like oxidation. I had dozens of figures like this that I've had primed and painted. I've never seen it progress.

To address the question in the title of your post: I know of no way to prevent lead rot, and no way to predict in advance which figures may suffer from it. Thankfully, the alloys used now do not seem to suffer from that possibility.

Rick

"Lead rot" is lead acetate.

Actually it's more than one thing, that's why it's so confusing.

link

Read the section under physical properties. Even old 'lead' figures had at least 15% tin and generally more. Now of course they are mostly tin.

So keep your figures warm!

A comment on the first post: I've stripped many figures with simple green, and I've found that a darkening of the figures is typical, even with newer lead-free figures. The texture of them can certainly appear rougher as well.

Ha! Now I'm worried that I may have promoted lead rot in my minis by dunking them in vinegar.

So, now that I *have* dunked them in vinegar, is there anything I should do to make sure all the acetic acid is removed before I prime them? (I've already rinsed them in water twice.)

Should I soak them in baking soda water to neutralize the acid? Or is a water rinse good enough?

I wonder why Simple Green darkens the minis? I realize my experiment of leaving the minis in the solution for several years is a bit extreme – but that's what happens when life (ie, kids) distract you.

There are so many methods out there recommended for removing paint – it would be interesting to see some before and after pics. No one usually mentions the lustre or not of minis after stripping. Except I think that DyeHard mentioned that minis will blackened after being soaked in HCL. I wonder why?

Thank you everyone for the replies to my concerns – and sorry if I keep dragging out this thread. I'm just curious. Maybe a FAQ for beginners would be a good idea?

Bottom line is if these truly have lead rot you'll want to toos them asap.

Nothing you describe in your initial post sounds remotely like lead rot. Dry your minis and prime them. You'll be good to go.

The patina on the old minis is 'normal'; I've seen them like that still in the blister.

Scrub off the vinegar residue with an old tooth brush & water, leave to dry and then spray with a modern primer. You won't even notice the pitting once primed.