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"Whose side are you on anyway??" Topic

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Personal logo Flashman14 Supporting Member of TMP24 Feb 2012 11:16 a.m. PST

I'm wondering if you find your loyalty change if your historical opponent does.

Example: I'm all in for Bonaparte when fighting the Russians or Austrians, but when I'm playing in the Peninsula, the only good crapaud is a dead one.

WE2: I'm for Germany against the stinking commie Bolshevics but when the Brits or Yanks are involved there's no greater evil than the fascist Nazis.

Do you consistently maintain your allegiances?

Angel Barracks24 Feb 2012 11:21 a.m. PST


mad monkey 124 Feb 2012 11:28 a.m. PST


Fat Wally24 Feb 2012 11:34 a.m. PST

My loyalty changes as I generally go for the underdog.

Example: Prussian or Russian when fighting French Napoleonic, yet in Spain I usually opt for French.

Terrement24 Feb 2012 11:36 a.m. PST


Yesthatphil24 Feb 2012 11:37 a.m. PST

I call WW2 on the Eastern Front the Great Patriotic War, so I don't think we'd squabble picking roles in that one.

But in general it is better not to identify too strongly with the 'sides' in a wargame …

John the OFM24 Feb 2012 11:43 a.m. PST

WW2 Huns are ALWAYS the Bad Guys, and so are Napoleonic French.

I can go either way with AWI armies. since I have lovingly painted both sides.

Pictors Studio24 Feb 2012 11:52 a.m. PST

I usually am pretty consistent no matter who the oponent is but wouldn't say it is absolutely true across the board.

In the case of WWII Germans are the bad guys whether fighting the Ruskies or the Brits.

Personal logo McKinstry Supporting Member of TMP Fezian24 Feb 2012 12:02 p.m. PST

Sometimes. Never Rebs or Nazis and only Commies when fighting Nazis but otherwise, I'll play any side in AWI, Napoleonics or earlier.

Gronan of Simmerya24 Feb 2012 12:04 p.m. PST

We dice before hand to see who's on which side, so no.

Sundance24 Feb 2012 12:05 p.m. PST

No preference – I'll play either side with equal gusto in any war.

The Gray Ghost24 Feb 2012 12:15 p.m. PST

I was pro French in Napoleonics though I did own some lesser armies, also the 1812-14 Germans because they had all those frei corps/legions, it's one of the things I like about the AWI, pro Patriot in the AWI and pro Union.

Tom Reed Supporting Member of TMP24 Feb 2012 12:17 p.m. PST

I'd like to think that I could play either side in a game. As a matter of fact I did just that in the same game a few weeks ago. When my Chinese Pirate leader finally died I got to be the Captain of a German gunboat.

Norman D Landings24 Feb 2012 12:24 p.m. PST

I'm with Sundance – I can happily 'get behind' any faction I happen to be playing.

Altius24 Feb 2012 12:43 p.m. PST

There's no side that I absolutely refuse to play – I'm happy to just be playing – but there are some sides that I prefer playing over others whenever possible. For example, I prefer not to play nazis or confederates if there is room on the other side of the table. But if not, sure, deal me in.

Dennis24 Feb 2012 1:10 p.m. PST

Like Allan Breck Stewart, I can lose on any side of a war.


epturner Supporting Member of TMP24 Feb 2012 1:11 p.m. PST

Just because I'm south of the border, doesn't mean I want Doodles wandering about The Niagara or otherwise infesting the West in 1812.


Grand Duke Natokina24 Feb 2012 1:15 p.m. PST

I play whatever the game master says I will play.

MahanMan24 Feb 2012 1:24 p.m. PST

It depends on whether or not it's a period I'm really interested in. If I'm playing, say, the ACW, then I'm going to be All For The Union! If it's the Seven Years' War, then…well, I'll happily push whatever lace-covered group you want, but don't expect me to buy an army.

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP24 Feb 2012 1:27 p.m. PST

The British, if they are in it. Otherwise based on a complicated formula involving religion, language, geographic location, signs of the zodiac and types of alcoholic beverages. Who says life ain't simple?

Justin Penwith24 Feb 2012 1:48 p.m. PST

My loyalty lay with whichever army I have before me. It wanes if I repeatedly lose and waxes depending upon my degree of success with it, but never entirely disappears.

Personal logo John the Greater Supporting Member of TMP24 Feb 2012 1:48 p.m. PST

I don't generally care. I do like to play Celts or Turks, but otherwise I'll play whatever is available.

kyoteblue24 Feb 2012 1:59 p.m. PST


skippy000124 Feb 2012 2:25 p.m. PST

Either way, I get to blow stuff up.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Feb 2012 3:20 p.m. PST

I don't really have an allegiance to the "side" I am gaming. My allegiance is to the game. To the fun. Which I think means playing the appropriate idiom to the hilt.


Yeah what all you guys said.

zippyfusenet24 Feb 2012 3:51 p.m. PST

I kinda like short, sweet games where we can reset the forces, switch sides and play another round. Find out who's really the best player. After I've gone to the trouble of setting up a pretty table, I want to use it more than once.

So no loyalty, I'll play both ends and the middle too.

Willtij24 Feb 2012 3:56 p.m. PST

This question gave me inspiration for a follow up one…..

Timbo W24 Feb 2012 3:58 p.m. PST

Whichever side I'm playing, though if I'm commanding the baddies will generally bluster and make outrageous demands to have any unsuccessful units shot or suffer crucifixion and loss of back pay.

just visiting24 Feb 2012 4:13 p.m. PST

"Loyalties", that's such a loaded word.

I always want to play the Crusaders, never the Muslims. Yet I would prefer playing the Mamluks when the Mongols invade the ME.

Normans are my all-time favorites; but when they invade England I really don't like to see the Anglo-Saxons get thrashed by them. I prefer to play AS when they are fighting Vikings.

The only "modern" war gaming I do is air combat. There, it is all airplane; if I like the airplane I happily play that side; so I play all sides :) ….

21eRegt24 Feb 2012 4:18 p.m. PST

I enjoy playing the side that eventually lost, allowing myself the illusion that I can change history, irrespective of their merits. So I play the Italians in WWII, the Russians against the Japanese in 1906, etc. However, I almost always paint up both sides so getting to play with my toys will go a long ways too.

When I lived in Omaha, NE and gamed with Air Force personnel from the SAC base there, I'd often set up a scenario where I'd ask them, "do you want to be a Nazi or a Commie?". And enjoy watching them squirm. The Cold War was going strong so they usually took the Nazis.

Little Big Wars24 Feb 2012 5:25 p.m. PST

I won't play games with IDF in them, regardless of how cool I think their kit is. Otherwise I'll play with or against damn near anything (including Those Wacky Terrorists/Commies/Nazis/Greenpeace).

Personal logo The Nigerian Lead Minister Supporting Member of TMP24 Feb 2012 5:48 p.m. PST

I play either side. Slight preference for Allies in the Great Patriotic War, and definite preference for the Union in the ACW. But in the end the games the thing.

ZULUPAUL Supporting Member of TMP24 Feb 2012 6:11 p.m. PST

No Confederates, Zulus over Brits (obvious), don't care in german vs Russians Nazi vs commies who cares who wins?

FusilierDan24 Feb 2012 7:46 p.m. PST

I prefer playing the side I painted.

Agesilaus24 Feb 2012 9:24 p.m. PST

I will always fill a gap in a game and do my best but I do have preferences.
Commies vs. Nazis – Both just as despicable.
Anyone else vs Nazis – I really dislike Nazis, but someone else always wants them.
Russo-Japanese 1904 – Both just as cool.
ACW – Only play Confederates to irk my buddy Norris.
Ancients – Prefer Greeks, especially Spartans
Like anyone fighting Rome
Anyone fighting Imperialsts

Cosmic Reset25 Feb 2012 6:56 a.m. PST

Doesn't really matter. If it is a period that interests me, I'll play the army.

AlanYork25 Feb 2012 7:45 p.m. PST

Years ago I used to play a fair bit of 20mm WW2 and would always play as the Nazis as the other guys wanted to play Home Guard etc. It was a lot of fun as long as you remembered that in real life many of the SS, Gestapo and Nazis in general were at best deluded or at worst simply wicked people. Say what you like about the Soviet Union but the Cold War was a picnic compared to the Dark Age that would have descended on Europe if they hadn't rolled the Germans back (along with the British, Americans, Canadians etc in the west of course).

Given the choice I would always pick the most left wing side possible so it's the Republic when I play SCW and Reds when I play RCW. That reflects my own political leanings but as a rule I think bringing politics into wargames isn't a good idea. People get nasty, stifles get thrown around left, right and centre on TMP (pardon the pun) and as we're all entitled to our own views and are usually reluctant to change them, what's the point in arguing?

I have both sides in Wars of the Roses and though the Lancastrians have a greater variety of livery colours and troops I would always choose Yorkists. In Ancients it's easy, go Greek!

The only other period I play is ACW naval for which my friend has both sides. I'm kind of torn there because I think if you join a club then you should be able to leave it, then again nations breaking up is generally a bad thing IMO and slavery is immoral. The decision is usually made for me as my friend prefers the Union so I get the Death Machine that is the CSS Virginia!

Ditto Tango 2 325 Feb 2012 7:48 p.m. PST


Old Bear26 Feb 2012 11:13 a.m. PST

It's gaming. One week I may be a hardened communist, the next an ardent fascist.

Say what you like about the Soviet Union but the Cold War was a picnic compared to the Dark Age that would have descended on Europe if they hadn't rolled the Germans back

Here we go…

AlanYork26 Feb 2012 3:18 p.m. PST

Hello Old Bear

Actually I hope we don't "go". It's simply my view that whilst the Soviet Union probably wasn't a nice place to live a lot of the time, they were by far the lesser of the two evils, hence my justification for my views on WW2 and which side I choose to take when wargaming 20th Century conflicts.

If others think it would have been better had Nazi Germany won then that's their opinion. Personally I think they're horribly wrong but they have every right to their views and I don't see the point in entering into debates that are almost certainly going to end in acrimony and stifles for very little in return.

I just prefer to state how I look at things, why I choose one side over another if given the choice in a game and leave it at that. Hopefully that's what I've done.

Thomas Nissvik27 Feb 2012 2:58 a.m. PST

I usually umpire our games. That way my total inability to pick a side and stick with it becomes a benefit, not a hindrance.

Bowman27 Feb 2012 7:57 a.m. PST

Man, I read this and realize I 'm in the minority here.


The only loyalties I have when playing a game is to get my precious little toys back in their box when done and to make sure that my buddies and I all had a good time.

I'm not under any delusion that I am supporting or condoning Nazism when I play my Germans.
Nor do I condone Communism when I play my Russians.
Nor do I condone slavery when I play my Confederates.
I wouldn't even know what supposed issues I'd be condoning or supporting when I play my Sassanid Persians or my Numidians.

If you can't dissociate real events from your toys then I feel bad for you. Determining that this little plastic toy represents evil more than a differently painted plastic toy, goes far beyond what I do with Wargaming.

AlanYork27 Feb 2012 6:19 p.m. PST

Good point. I do however like to keep in mind that for us it's a game, at the time these things were happening it was far from being a game. People were fighting and dying for causes they believed in. Whether or not we personally espouse those causes is kind of irrelevant.

When I played Waffen SS rampaging through Walmington on Sea in the Home Guard "Dad's Army" games all those years ago I played them like a Pantomime Baddy, their commander hid behind cover whilst his men behaved badly and shot the place up. Kind of Dick Dastardly meets Joachim Peiper. I didn't believe I was espousing National Socialism in any way or that the game was a depiction of real events, how could it be? Walmington On Sea doesn't exist. I did keep in mind though that the real Waffen SS did commit real atrocities where real people became really dead and didn't get up again to be put back in the box for the next game.

Whilst I respect your point and I think it has validity I think that if we completely disassociate our games from the history they represent then we are in danger of trivialising or ignoring the sometimes appalling suffering of others. I'm not saying we should endlessly navel gaze until we end up playing nothing at all just that it behoves us to pause for reflection from time to time.

1815Guy28 Feb 2012 8:18 a.m. PST

Sit back and relax on zis sofa Herr Flashman, close ze eyes and tell me about your Muzzer….

pbishop1221 Mar 2012 3:43 a.m. PST

I'll play any side if it looks cool.

OSchmidt21 Mar 2012 1:58 p.m. PST

My primary area of interst is the 18th century. We're all friends here, we're all related here too! Next year I might BE on the other side! I mean-- it's not like we're "the people" we are all "persons of condition" and my sister is married to the fellow across the way, and he's a rather nice fellow too! Has an excellent wine celler and has 50 of the best horses in his stables that I've ever seen!

Oh I have heard all these nutters, "The Philosophes" talking about equality and the rights of man, but that's all parlor talk for the ladies. Even the Ladies know it's all drivel. My wife has told Monsieur Voltaire himself "This is al very good Monsieur, but you forget that I am La Duchesse Du Riseundhine, and you, for all your intelligence, are merely the son of a clerk, and that, Monsieur is that!.

Ah-- I hear the fifes tuning up. That means that it is time to advance upon the foe at 72 paces per minute (not 71 or 73, but 72 paces.

A glass of Tokay before we go?

Marc the plastics fan22 Mar 2012 4:27 a.m. PST

I love my Napoleonic French – no other army, paint job or whatever comes close. Which means I am not so good at playing them, as I hate to see them lose. Honestly, by my mid-life I should have got over this :-)

Bullethead22 Mar 2012 9:18 a.m. PST

I've been in a quandry ever since the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor…


flooglestreet22 Mar 2012 9:36 a.m. PST

My loyalties change every few minutes. I am a solo gamer.

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