"Ban criticism of Navwar that is thinly disguised as polls ?" Topic

Well ?

There's been a number of polls over the last year or so which seem to directly be aimed at the perceived weaknesses of Navwar's Business model.

Why don't they do photos on the website ?
Why don't they take Paypal ?
Why don't they wrap their figures in the gossamer wings of deceased pixies ?
Why does it take more than 24 hours for a package to get from the UK to Australia ?

And so on.

Should polls that are really nothing more than thinly disguised Navwar bashing be banned ?

Yes !
No !
Maybe !
Can I carry on picking on QRF ?

Its not just polls aimed at Navwar.

There have been loads of polls indirectly "having a go" at either indivduals or companies.

Its been going on for years.

You are not going to stop it.

Only one man can.

/shrug

YesItsMe – Agree totally.

I tend to think the big boys – WOTC, GW, etc – generally are unaffected by all comments (good or bad). If I say "WH40K sucks" or "WH0K is super cool" I doubt it'll affect sales at all.

When it's picking on the one-man-bands, who've soldiered on (pardon pun) for 40 years or more through good times and bad, I get a bit fed up with what I perceive as being mean spirited. Others will no doubt say they have a right to criticise.

How can you tell that they are about Navwar specifically, and not other companies that don't take PayPal or have pictures on their site?
-Kle.

The citing of them as an example is usually a give away.

Them and QRF are the "usual suspects".

This is a waste of time. People complain about things they dont like.

I'm gonna say "no" because then we wouldn't be able to have thinly disguised criticisms of other companies either.

I would call it customer feedback. If a company that is attempting to make money can't be bloody bothered to take some photo's of their products and accept digital payments in 2012 then they deserve to fail.

Sorry but that is modern retail 101 and as much as some gamers hate it pointed out, this is an industry not a tea party.

Jaz
6sided.net – Blogs For Gamers By Gamers

But not every company is in it to make lots of money, some just want a trickle of business coming in so they can fund their own gaming.

If a company can make enough money to be worth running without all the wizz-bang marketing, it must sell a pretty good product.

That's fine AB, but its still common courtesy to show people what they might be buying and make it easy to buy.

Your local charity shop is just getting by, but they still have prices and a card swipe.

Jaz
6sided.net – Start Your Gaming Blog In Minutes

If I have to jump through to many Paypal hoops I won't buy from the company.

That's fine AB, but its still common courtesy to show people what they might be buying and make it easy to buy.

No it bloody isn't. It's a business decision.

The owner of Navwar has obviously made the decision that he doesn't need an all singing, all dancing website and e-commerce facilities. What the is so wrong with that?

Navwar have been around for ever, they must be doing something right.

and, as I wrote here: TMP link

The owner of Navwar doesn't care. He's obviously satisfied with his existing customer numbers, and it's not his full time business.

More power to him. I've never had any problems ordering from Navwar, and they sell some nice stuff at reasonable prices.

Actually, I really have not got that 'sense' of polls lately…

If a company that is attempting to make money can't be bloody bothered to take some photo's of their products and accept digital payments in 2012 then they deserve to fail.

Bull .
So, if you do not do business the way I like, do YOU deserve to fail?
You modern reverse-Luddites are even more intolerant than the original ones.

And the plural of "photos" does not require an apostrophe.

Should arrogant reverse-Luddites be banned from TMP for demanding that all companies conform to their own instant gratification urges?

If a company has a business model and is meeting the expectations of the business model, I can't see where it is going wrong? Lower costs from not having certain applications or equipment is passed on as savings to the punter.

There is a lot of work involved in producing the little bits we push around and if there are a few less tasks involved then who am I or anyone to criticise? The market will be the judge of a company.

I must confess that filling in a form using a pen, then writing the cheque, addressing the envelope, sticking on the stamp, going to the post box…gives me a lot more pleasure than a few swift key strokes and a bending of plastic. Brings me back to my old school self. And you get a better class of service than you do from many of the singing all dancing fancy website vendors.

"If a company can make enough money to be worth running without all the wizz-bang marketing, it must sell a pretty good product."

It does, it is Navwar. Accept no substitutes.

"Should arrogant reverse-Luddites be banned from TMP for demanding that all companies conform to their own instant gratification urges?"

They just crack me up.

but its still common courtesy

Doesn't common courtesy work both ways ? Perhaps an actual customer could consider dropping Navwar a line with their next order, politely sugggesting this and that as an improvement.

What's so courteous about people who, in all probability, have no real intention of ordering from Navwar continually grinding their axe on an internet forum that, let's be honest, Navwar probably aren't even reading ?

Why is QRF one of the usual suspects ? (puzzled)

Visiting the Navwar shop is like walking back in time and I love it.

No pressure to buy and the owner has all the time in the world to discuss miniatures, history and gaming.

Wasn't that known as customer care back in the old days?

Long may Navwar continue.

"Why don't they wrap their figures in the gossamer wings of deceased pixies"?

Never thought about it until now, but I imagine it might be that they are a bit rare, or fragile. Still, it would be nice if they could do that.

"Why does it take more than 24 hours for a package to get from the UK to Australia"?

Another good point. Why no direct flights, with in-flight aerial refueling?

We have the technology, but no one seems to be utilizing it.

Direct flights to the West Coast of the USA, from the UK would be appreciated as well.

Well said there 20th.

Why is QRF one of the usual suspects ? (puzzled)

IIRC they have been singled out on more than one occassion for not having a complete set of product photos on their web site. They do have a lot, but not every single low selling dinosaur.

Navwar despite their primitive/old fashioned set up give amaszing customer service and have a great product. Im a real technophile but I still use them.

I know what's missing I take most of the photos.
It'd be nice occassionally if someone turned round and said – `I notice QRF have finished taking photos of (for example) their WW2 russians' (finished incidentally on Tuesday night at 11.45 pm).

I guess we could just put out a press release every time we do put a photo up, but that is pretty counter productive.

Instead I'll just carry on trudging through the missing ones as fast as I can. Who knows one day I might get paid for it :-)

While I defend the right of wargamers to bitch and moan about anything (because that's what so many of us do much of the time) I'm not sure that making it into a poll is helpful to anyone. If you have a bee in your bonnet about something, do I have to pitch in for-or-against?

Navwar has been in business since I was a beginner – early '70s? So, assuming the owner wasn't also fourteen at the time, he is probably a senior citizen by now. If he doesn't want to update his business model, why should he?

If you don't want to deal with his way of doing things, don't.

Navwar's owner is in his 70's I think.

And here's what I will be cleaning up, asembling, undercoating painting, photographing, photoshopping and uploading to the QRF website over the next two weeks.

BAT03 37mm Bofors
BAT05 6 pounder Mk II
BAT06 6 pounder Mk I
BAC09 Marmon Herrington Car 4.7cm
BAC10 Marmon Herrington Breda Car 2cm AA
BAW03 40mm Bofors
BAW04 Sexton 25 pounder
BAW09 18/25 pounder, limber and Dragon
BAW10 QF 25 pounder short MkI
BAW11 QF 3.7" pack howitzer MkI
BAPC04 Universal Carrier Mk 1
BAPC05 Universal MMG Carrier with dismounted Vickers and crew
BAPC06 Universal Mortar Carrier with dismounted mortar BSV04 Jeep towing 6 pounder gun

About 10 hours work I reckon.

Shouldn't it be one post per item these days?

Darn it, you're right, breaking `the rules' there :-)

Navwar was one the the first businesses I ever bought miniatures from beginning in the late seventies. Since then I have seen literally scores of other miniature manufacturers come and go, all with much more 'modern' approaches to the market but still Navwar remains much as always with the addition of the ability to send orders via fax and email. Clearly they are doing something right.

On my one visit to London I managed to catch the train out to the Navwar store and spent a pleasant hour chatting with the proprietor. I wish more miniatures businesses were as easy to visit.

And thanks to you, Paulkit, for your QRF photos.

Good grief what did I nearly miss?take time put to put the kids to bed and look what happens :-)

I quite like us getting picked on. Its a great opportunity for me to advertise the latest photos we just added (without resorting to a news release) and generally ups our traffic flow.

Wargamers generally don't care what conditions, motivations or constraints the manufacturer operates under. They want what they want and assume the rest of the world wants it too.

What is always funny is those who cite us as an example – we are probably one with most of the ranges photographed, so can authoritatively comment on the time, cost and real return on the effort. (if I looked at it from under an accountants hat, its a waste of resources unless you are quantifying it very long term).

I just find it a handy excuse to publish a link to the website.

quickreactionforce.co.uk

Awesome Geoff.

Why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why oh why is there no photo of SF13 Florabunda Lingulatum (grappler)?

I am shocked and outraged.

OH YA !! Are you going to have photos of all your figures painted, stained,and in bare metal from six different angles all the time being show next to all the figures from other lines for a size comparison --and will you ever do the poom phomfoo guns and ACW soldiers relieving themselves and will they come with leveled bayonets??
Ha,Ha -- I didn't think so!!!
Regards
Russ Dunaway

As long as there's no 'Hey Steve!' figures in their lines, its all good…

Ya Man -- thats another funny thing -- I see all kinds of figures being released from other companies with "hey Steve" poses and not a thing is said -- some Crimean figs just the other day -- of course they were just like the OG ones in that they were NCO's, officers, leaders, waving forward,pointing,pushing,etc thus making the poses quite "normal" -- also before someone mentions the firing figures looking away from the musket --Huuuum --often thats what happened with black powder?
Of course the "hey steve" phrase was coined by a competitor who has since been involved in two failed ventures so not much to worry about there so I now wear it as badge of honor -- beside --half the time I am in a "hey steve" pose.
all being said – it may be possible that I see a vast conspiracy here -- possible anyway -- no I am not paranoid -- I'm really not ---I just think everyone is out to get me ??????????
Regards
Russ Dunaway

It is true that there are many Hey Steve vendors, and honestly, for skirmishing, I don't mind the pose. (And in 15mm or below, I find it difficult to even tell if they are looking forward or away anyway…)

I do think you should do like Geoff and jump in with a link, Russ, to show off the great variety of figs you make.

Having been a customer of Navwar years ago it did not bother me then and does not now.

Due to the range of figures being 'real' compared to SciFi or Fantasy I'm not that bothered researching the things.

e.g SND709 will look like:

link

but the last beastman I bought was the wrong size even though it came from the same manufacturer (different range)!

Quality maybe an issue – talk to them first and see if you can return them if you are un-happy.

This is their choice and should not be forced on them.

So please drop these style polls.

meh, I vote for 4!