| Cincinnatus | 08 Feb 2012 7:16 p.m. PST |
What's a good range if someone wanted to paint up some figures for this battle? It would be nice if both sides were represented by the same manufacturer's range but if not, I'm mostly interested in the Crusaders. |
IGWARG1   | 08 Feb 2012 7:43 p.m. PST |
25mm – Perry. Perfect for 1st to 3rd crusades |
| mghFond | 08 Feb 2012 8:28 p.m. PST |
Perry's are really excellent, I second IGWARG1. |
 McKinstry | 08 Feb 2012 9:31 p.m. PST |
Old Glory's 10mm range has the right figures for both as does Magister Militum in 10mm as well. |
| agrippavips | 08 Feb 2012 11:02 p.m. PST |
15mm Legio Heroica in Italy. Beautiful figures for this exact period. |
| Redcurrant | 09 Feb 2012 3:33 a.m. PST |
Another recommendation for Legio Heroica, excellent figures. Steve J |
| Ran The Cid | 09 Feb 2012 8:34 a.m. PST |
When did the square great helm become common? Crusader & FireForge have new models in this style. Would it be appropriate for Hattin – or is 1187 too early? |
| Cincinnatus | 09 Feb 2012 9:52 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the feedback. 15mm would likely be the smallest would consider. I hate the bendy spear look and that always seems to be the worst in 10mm. |
| Swampster | 10 Feb 2012 10:45 a.m. PST |
"When did the square great helm become common? Crusader & FireForge have new models in this style. Would it be appropriate for Hattin – or is 1187 too early?" There are a few possible examples worn this early (incl. perhaps Richard I's second seal) but in the main even facemasks seem to be uncommon. Around this time a flat topped helmet, sometimes with a nasal, was used by some. Crusasder Miniatures' knights look to be a generation or more after Hattin – 5th Crusade onwards IMHO. There are one or two in a sugarloaf helm which is quite late. Fireforge also look to be roughly mid-13th century. Another point is that caparisoned horses were likely rare around the time of Hattin though with so few contemporary Outremer pics surviving it may have been different there c/w Europe. |
| just visiting | 10 Feb 2012 12:53 p.m. PST |
You can do the entire sheebang with Old Glory. It's probably the cheapest way too (plastics not included of course)…. |
| rampantlion | 10 Feb 2012 7:47 p.m. PST |
There is mention of a "new helm" at the battle of Bouvines in 1214 and I think that may be referring to an early type of great helm where the face mask helm had been extended around the back of the neck possibly. I think that the common helmets contemporary to Hattin would have been nasal helms (conical and flat top) and maybe an early facemask flat top helm. I would also suspect flat top helm with coif or mail over the top and just a coif with padded or leather underneath as well. There might have been some helmets that also showed the easterinfluence amoong the western knights (frisian or turban wrapped). I would think that the true great helms might have started showing up in the 1220's to 1240's. Just a guess though I am no expert.
Allen
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| janner | 19 Feb 2012 9:14 a.m. PST |
Earliest record of a great helm I've come across is Richard's Great Seal of 1198 – as mentioned above. A version of his 1189 Great Seal may have shown him wearing a faceplate. Like Allen I would go for nasal helms (conical and flat top) for Hattin and the Third Crusade, with the odd face plated flat top. Crusader and Fireforge are too late for Third and Fourth Crusades, but okay for the Fifth onwards. Perrys require some work for Hattin and the Third. Even if you can leave aside the lack of long sleeved Hauberks, mailed mittens, chausses and mailed footwear (as I did) you will still need surcoats for the odd knight and Caparisons for some of their mounts. Infantry are fine as is though ;-) |
| Marcus Brutus | 20 Feb 2012 1:48 p.m. PST |
I am using 11th century figures (Crusader mostly) for the middle period of the Kingdom of Jerusalem but am going to use Perry for the military order knights. But I'd like to have some foot seargents in surcoats and can't find anything early enough to look right (most of the figures in surcoats look 13th century to my eye as others have noted.) Any suggestions on this aspect of putting together this army. |
| janner | 21 Feb 2012 12:46 a.m. PST |
Sorry. as far as I'm aware there's a gap in the market. As mentioned above, Old Glory produce this sort of thing in 25/28mm, but they are an acquired taste. |
| SgtPerry | 21 Feb 2012 5:21 a.m. PST |
There are also some nice minis in the Gripping Beast Crusade range that can be used for Hattin. I painted them as Sergeants Templar
link
If you don't look at the knights who have an early type of great help, the sergeants on horse are fine for Hattin. I also used them as mercenaries
link Some minis from Curteys medieval range can be use too.
link As far as I know, Fireforge has a 2nd-3rd Crusades range in the pipe. I saw pics of samples displayed at Crisis last november.
Olivier |
| Mick in Switzerland | 25 Feb 2012 4:17 a.m. PST |
I have the first Fireforge set and they are very good. |
