"seeking input for new store" Topic

Not sure if this shold be here but here goes. I am currently working on a business plan for opening a new gaming and hobby store in the GTA, I currently reside just north of there. What I was interested in was input from members here as to what theywould lke to see such a sore carry in terms of product lines, eras and scales. All feedback and suggestions would be helpful and grreatly appreciated. Thank you your assistance in this.

1) Not what you like what the customer buys .
2) Variety is the spice of life . a little of this and that with the willingness to special order .
3) supplies are always needed . What good are mini's with no paint or glues . Not even Game brands but decent quality .
4) 'its the little things" . The big potato sold is good , but , its the butter sour cream and chives keeps the doors open . not everyone has alot to spend but usually has something to spend .

The most important thing:

Research the customer demographic within 20 miles. If there isn't a large population that you can draw from you are sunk before you start.

Having comic book stores or other hobby stores in the area can be a plus as long as the population is big enough to support another store. If there is potential competition check them out and see what they may be doing wrong or what you can improve on.

Another thing, asking here for product lines won't matter to your local gamers unless you want to bring in something not found in other stores. If you are first in an area it will be tough in some ways (developing customers who are new to the hobby) and easier in others (you can bring in ranges that should sell well in your store.)

You are better off bringing in items that are supported by magazines, etc. FOW, Privateer Press, Reaper, even GW. That extra promotional stuff can really help. And don't underestimate the potential for CCG card games. I never understood the appeal myself but they are immensely popular with certain gamers and those same gamers rarely do miniature gaming,

In store gaming and painting areas are a must.

Don't underestimate food and the popularity of having it available. Make a deal with a local pizza joint. Food can be very profitable and help your store survive even when reasonably priced. Don't allow outside food or drink.

The biggest threat to your business will be with people who game at the store and buy online. Some stores have gone to a rewards system which gives them free gaming if they buy at a certain monthly level and charge gamers if not.
Be careful of these people sending your customers to buy online and have a consistent policy dealing with them.

I'd support all of the points above, particularly the issues with people telling others about great online stores and discounts.

If you do set up an online element yourself then ensure that any prices 'in store' match those on the 'online' site.
If they don't people may feel diddled and leave.

Also worth looking at some of the popular online stores prices and postage. Being able to quickly provide figures to the 'but online is so much cheaper' brigade proving that once you combine postage onto an order it's not cheaper is a good way to push someone into buying then and there.

I'd also look into how quickly your suppliers can get stock to you. Being able to tell someone it 'will be here in 2 days' and being able to keep that promise will help bring people back.

If your store has enough room, then having a few gaming tables will be good. I'd suggest charging a small fee (if you think you can get away with it) for people to book them. Have some 'store terrain' as well so that people only have to bring their figures.

Boardgames are popular too, so a small selection of popular ones may help sales.

If you're north of the GTA why would U not look at Barrie
were they have nothing… pop – 135,000 GTA 50 min. away
and Orillia, Gravenhurst, Bradford…all within an hour
distance.

and I agree with what BG says above also…

Regards
James

What's GTA?

First of all, best of luck – can always use new games stores in the Greater Toronto Area !

The only thing I'd like to challenge is the importance of gaming space – I know, that might be blasphemey around here but hear me out… Also, I'm a basement not a store gamer so am biased.

Personally, I hate going in a store crowded with gamers. They are often in your way when you are trying to look at stock (meaning buy something !) and, I don't know but is gaming chatter really annoying when you are not part of the game ? Just the whole – ah-ha now my mystic knights are charging… comments – so annoying. It gives me a negative image and I am reluctant to go back. Give me a nice clear, clean store everytime. If you have a gaming area, try to keep it out of the retail area.

I also wonder how much they actually buy. I suppose the model is – aww, I lost, if only I had…oh look, here they are… but I wonder.

Plus, that space is costing you money – money that isn't spent on inventory.

As The Hobbybox said – special order ability is also key. If you normally stock a line, don't have the specific one I want – well if I'm confident I can get it from you, I'll be back. Just don't go too far in the sense of – they have 100 figures in the range, you stock three with comments of – well we can get…impulse buys are important too.

But anyway – not like I've ever run a store…

But good luck !

little o:
G.T.A. means Greater Toronto Area. A euphamism for unwanted urban sprawl according to most Montrealers!
Rod Robertson.

Diversity is probably your friend. Without getting spread too thin.

Get someone local that can paint or make terrain to hang around, offer pointers to those of us with seven thumbs. Maybe take some commision jobs. Offer painting classes.

Stock markers or tokens that would be useful in various games. They don't take much room and would probably sell.

Don't put the gaming space right in the doorway. Yes it looks good from the street, but its hard to get to the product.

When I go to a game store, I try to buy something, even if I'm not looking for anything specific. (of course I don't go often, closest one is 90 minutes away.) So items in the $5 USD-$15 range. Rulers, tape measures, dice, organizer bags or boxes (for dice, tokens, etc).

General Brock, I'll let you in on the best kept secret in Barrie; Gamers Lair. Well stocked hobby/gaming store particularly for fantasy, board games and gaming supplies. Some "historical" miniatures. Open late most nights. they provide several gaming tables, terrain etc.
You can, I believe pay a yearly fee to access the gaming tables, or it's $ 2.00 a visit. I usually only go once a week for ancient miniature gaming. Seems to always be about a dozen people there doing other stuff. Good bunch of guys, and the owner is very affable. Even better,there is a Chinese take out and pizza place on either side of Gamers Lair.

I'm in Peterborough, which has a GW-ish comic shop and that's about it, so I'm a potential customer.

My thought is to try and find what makes the Sentrybox a success out in Calgary and model that, it's a great store. Covers everything (Euro games to RPGs to GHQ), gaming space, does online orders, and lots of rules, books, and minis to fondle when you visit. The latter is why I really enjoy visiting and just wandering for an hour or so, and spending more than I planned when all is said and done.

I think a lot of the hobby is too diversified to satisfy everyone in every scale, but carrying some of the really nice "look at me" lines I would think would generate interest. E.g. Pulp Figures, the Splintered Lands creatures, some of the cool 15mm sci-fi stuff, microarmor, etc.

Chris

GTA is the Greater Toronto Area. We're looking at 5,000,000+ so this is big market. The GTA is the fourth largest market in North America after New York, Chicago and LA.

Whatever you carry make it comprehensive in stock. Why I purchase figures I want more than one pack of a certain type. Become known for what you do and do it well. I live in Guelph and travelling down to say Markham to your store is a big deal so I want it to be worth it for my time and travel.

Diversity is probably your friend. Without getting spread too thin.

That's the rub, probably – finding the point of balance between trying to appeal to everyone and trying not to get spread too thin (or sink too much into stock you'll end up putting on clearance in a year).

In my opinion, in this day and age, a brick and mortar store HAS to offer something that the consumer absolutely can NOT get online (and for less). This could be a gaming area, or painting contests, or make and takes, or intro nights for new games/products, or tournaments, or pole-dancers, or whatever, but I just don't think you can go toe-to-toe with online retailers anymore and hope to succeed.

If you want to BECOME an online retailer, and have a B&M storefront as well, that's a different proposition, of course.

Doug

My advice from years of failed attempts here in the US.

Try and recruit local gamers first, if you can get groups in the door they will not only help to spread the word, but will give you regulars to make the business look like there is someone who cares your open.

If there is never anyone in the store people will think there is something wrong with you or the business and not come in.

It would be great if it could be downtown or close to the subway. I frequently travel to Toronto but do not have access to a car there.

Good luck with the plans!

w.

You won't be able to stock everything, but have an efficient procedure for obtaining new items and communicating with customers.

I was trying to pick up a copy of the battletech boxed set here in Alberta and went to three different stores (boardgame/RPG orientated). None had it in stock, so I left my details at all three and they said they'd try to order it for me. Two months later I hadn't heard anything so I did the rounds of the threes stores. No one had done anything and they didn't even have a record of my enquiry. I left my details again and when I still hadn't heard anything two months after that repeated the process with the same result.

That's NINE store visits, with NO communication and NO result for a product that should be easy to obtain/fairly common.

In the end I ordered online from the States and those local brick and mortar "FLGS" stores lost an order and a potential frequent return customer.

Customer service can also be really poor in some of the gaming stores I've been in. My experience is if you get the owner they are really great, enthusiastic, knowledgable and keen to engage with you, but the regular staff are often less than diligent and probably wouldn't survive in a regular retail job selling other products. So if you're planning to have others on board, make sure they share your vision and are willing to put some energy into it.

My final thought is around exchange rates. Make sure that imported items have a reasonable and up to date price.

Hope that helps with making your venture a success.

Cheers, Andy

Forgot one thing. Most businesses fail within a year. Make sure you are gambling with money you can afford to lose. And yes it is a gamble. All business is until you get a decent customer base. Then it becomes a monthly struggle to generate sales and make payroll and bills.

And my last bit of advice, if your not willing to roll up your sleeves and do the grunt work for little return for quite some time don't bother getting involved. All too many times I have seen new business owners start to hire staff as soon as possible to get a break, meanwhile all their profits evaporate and then months later they are out of business.

Your plans should have revenue and expense goals with the math to support staff when you can. If your sales deviate from the plan you adjust your plan to the actual versus planned revenue.

It is a lot harder to do the math on the fly when the business is running. Even harder when it is not doing well.

I am on a different continent, but proximity to a public transport system must help there as much as it would here. GW are always very careful that their customers in the UK can get a bus, train, tram, metro or other system to reach their stores. Failing that they put them somewhere mum and dad need to drive to anyway…

Pat

Neal and I would strongly echo what Lon (Brigade Games) has said.

You need to do some research on what people in your area play and then stock that. It probably will not be what you like to play. It's best to stock a few lines well, rather than to stock 1 or 2 blisters of lots of lines. As you develop your relationships with your distributors, you will find that most things can be ordered and delivered fairly quickly.

I would probably start stocking some of the more main stream lines such as Privateer Press, GW, Reaper, Battlefront, Spartan Games, WarLord Games and Architects of War to begin with. You might pick one or 2 small lines that are "neat".

A clean store and gaming area are important. If you choose to have food and beverages available, do not let people bring in outside food and drink.

Inevitably, people will play at your store and want to talk about the great deal they got online. Be kind but firm -- if you play here, you buy here. If you want something I don't have, let me know and I will see if it's available from my suppliers. This is why having more than one distributor/supplier/manufacturer is important.

If you develop a web presence in addition to a B&M store, make sure your prices match. People get the same price from TWS if they come to the store, if they order on line or if they buy it from us at a show.

Consider hosting a campaign or league play for some of the gaming systems.

Make your store stand out by bringing in people in the area that know how to paint, sculpt, convert, base, etc etc etc and run those clinics every so often. Open up some boardgames and have a family Friday night every so often where people can come in and try new games at no cost with the opportunity to purchase the game at a discount that night.

As Lon said, most businesses fail within the first year. 50% of those that make it past the first year, fail within the next 5 years. If you are fortunate to hit the 5 year anniversary, you can breathe a little easier.

Neal and I work more often than not. We are always at the store, even on Sundays. We have poured lots of sleepless nights and sweat into The WarStore. Your baby will demand all of your time and money for the first several years. Make sure that the money you have is money you can afford to lose and meet your responsibilities to your family. Please please please make sure that your significant other is on board with this endeavor. Your dates for the foreseeable future will involve inexpensive food at the store, putting away stock, running a game, etc etc etc. Be realistic in your expectations. Talk to those on these boards that own stores. We can tell you all of the horror stories and success stories that we have had.

Customer service is critical. We all make boo boos and we all have bad hair days. But communicating with your customers about new releases, special orders, back orders, etc etc etc is critical. Be willing to fix your mistakes with a smile.

I wish you the best of luck.

Dorothy

If you're looking at the GTA, make sure it's subway accessible since your target demographic will be young and most likely without a car. Just like any major city we have our traffic and transit problems.

A local gamer base is very important, you may want to consider something in the vicinity of York University in North York, I'm not sure if there are any other stores in the area (I live in the downtown and never got out there), but you have a campus of 50k students, along with a large suburban population that doesn't want to deal with the 401/404/400.

The other option is right in downtown where there are no stores, but your overhead and base costs will be higher.

Just want to thank everyone for your input, it as been helpful and appreciated.

Think historical gaming. All the game stores in the GTA seem to cater to fantasy. Workshops. Have sessions on how to make terrain, buildings, etc… If you know gamers they are more than willing to help put on sessions.

First suggestion would be to keep a permanent gaming area out of the store. The worst thing I can find in a store is a bunch of non shoppers using it as a loitering area where the shop staff are more interested in them then in serving customers.From stores I have gone to the in house gamers are more of a distraction then asset. Clutter noise and garbage are three reasons. Based on your square meter rental charge they are usually not worth it. Keep all food out of the store.

You can still have a contact wall where local gamers and clubs can post notices of events or meetings.

Immediate subway access in not necessary as this will probably drive up your rent. Maybe later on when you are a going concern and want to expand. A store on a street that has a bus/street car connection to a subway line should be acceptable to transit based shoppers. North Toronto may be a good area There used to be a lot of what seemed to be moderately priced stores along both Finch and Sheppard once you are kilometer or so away from Yonge but still on bus routes.

Contact distributors now to see what is available and their buying and shipping policies. They may have displays that can be incorporated into your shop display and help you with pricing etc.

Above all advertise your presence If gamers can't find you they will not come. It is not a case of if you build it gamers will come. For example I lived in the GTA for many years and often visited Barrie but did nor find out about the store until today.

As to market if you are good shoppers will come. I know GTA gamers who drive to North Bay to shop at North Bay games. They may be a good eample for you to follow as to type of store and inventory A drive up may be worthwhile to see them .

Finally my last and most important word of advice for a GTA Store : NO CLOWN SUITS

I had my own shop from 2003 to 2006, so take what I offer with a grain of salt. I was no success. I had 8 gaming tables. I wish I had kept only 4 and left the rest of the space for stock or just open. Should have charged to play. In my opinion in-store gaming doesn't work well without a charge to play model.

NOW with that being said, I concur with the others that CCG folks bring in money. Always have room for them to play and host tournaments.

RPG folks very rarely purchased product but felt compelled to stay late at the store. Some of them would leave the table where they were playing; go over to my RPG bookshelves use it as a library for their game and never buy the book. This is where a table charge would have helped.

Always always always remember the customer is always right. Even a smelly slob with money to spend is your boss.

I started out with a 12k investment in GW and 5k in a mix of alliance products, most RPG books and boardgames. 2k with 19th Century Miniatures and another 2k with Devil Dog Design and some other small companies.

GW was worth the price. I wish I had took only core RPG books and put more money in Magic CCG. The 2k in 19th Century held it's value but was not a big seller.

Consider well where you rent your store. IMHO gamers will seek you out and find you. I started out in a high rent area. Wish I had found a cheaper location.

My 2 cents.

Don't do what my local Gaming store does, i.e. come across as a greedy *$$^%#!. I used to go into the store, every couple of weeks to see if he had anything I wanted. The last time I went in I did a quick run through, saw nothing I was interested in and was getting ready to leave, when he got up from his computer game, started telling me all his problems while trying to get me interested in FOW (well 15mm WW2), but as I was and still am doing WW2 in 1:72 I wasn't going to switch. So after pestering me for 20 more minutes he asks me "Since you're so cheap, why do you come in?" and without waiting for an answer went back to his computer game. As I said it WAS the last time I went in. All of my gaming friends have had similar interactions with him. We think it's because we have most of what we want, therefore buy little now and since we are putting no money in his pocket, he can treat us like crap with no monetary loss. He has a very hard time getting people to run Historical demos for him though.

Rich,
Sounds like the guy is a social cripple. I too wouldn't waste my time or money at a store like that.

Stick to the basics.
Warhammer, Warmachine, FOW, MTG, board games and Dungeons and Dragons.
I would not bring in historicals other than FOW or the 28mm figs that Iron Ivan rules use.
Most of the historical players are older and not subject to impulse buying.
Remember that you are running a business and some people are not worth catering to.

Keep the gaming tables away from the product. Preferably in a separate room.
This will reduce noise which has the potential of scaring off any casual shoppers and it reduces pilferage.

Allowing outside food in the gaming area means that your customers will spend more time in the store and increase the likelyhood of spending more money.
But you will have to make sure that the gaming area is cleaned every day.

Good luck…retail inGTA is a risk,
you have a lot of good points above,
Specialise, Online, Package armies,
army lists, battle lists
Do a couple of years of conventions in NA.
I remember at least two dozen hobby and gaming shops
coming and going from GTA wish you luck
(Ted/Mapleleaf hey)
Robert

All good advice and I'd certainly welcome another option here in the black hole that is TO.

Customer loyalty is important. I use your place to game in I'll usually my my minis and paints, books etc there unless the prices are way out of whack.

I'm one of those who may come in weekly and browse while waiting to game and not grab anything outside of paint etc for months on end and then if I get into a new system or want a new army drop a couple of hundred bucks in one go to get what I want/need (FOW Army box for example). Over the course of the year it probably amounts to the same as some teenager tossing his allowance every week over the till for a blister here and there.

Clean separate gaming area with an area to safely store terrain (either the stores or a clubs) is a must. Above ground would be nice but I can deal with the basement in DG at least outside of a very humid summer day when it's full of the hygienically and socially challenged subset.

As also noted easy access to TTC preferably close to if not on one of the subway lines would be a plus too.

Good support for local gamers/clubs ( tournaments etc) is also a must, Barrie and HK in Burlington are quite good at this.

I'll post a link to this thread over on THMG (Toronto Historical Miniature Gamers) forum so you may get some more input and encouragement.

Couple of random thoughts:

I'm a historical gamer, but I know you need to sell 40K, Warhammer, card games, Clix, etc., etc. to stay in business, just don't expect me to buy much more than some paint or brushes because you simply aren't going to carry what I am interested in. I've said that to say this, I would be willing to pay to play in your store and I think it is reasonable to charge people. Years ago I wouldn't be saying that, but I am now. Everybody pays 2 or 3 bucks and gets a badge good for that day. It is a visible sign to the staff that lets them know you paid. I would also allow you to turn the badge in for whatever the cost was off a purchase. This will probably drive up your sale of paint, glue, brushes, dice and smaller priced items. I am willing to give you cash to help keep your store open so I can play some historical games with my friends.

I suggest you run games with the figs you carry. One of the above posters mentioned Splintered Light. They make nice looking stuff, but don't just hang it on your wall, paint some up and run games with it. That should help sales.

Get some vending machines or coolers and enforce the 'no outside food or drinks' rule.

Don't pay your employees to socialize and play games with their friends. Like most, I get tired of being ignored by employees who are too busy hanging out with their gaming buds and not taking care of customers.

Clean and well lit is a must.

Enforce a no profanity rule. I'm not talking about an occassional curse word in the back room if children aren't around, but some gammers are so socially retarded that they think it is acceptable to drop F-bombs in the middle of a family store.

Get a write-up in a local paper or two. Try to have an advertising budget of some kind. Take an ad out in the local college paper. Sponsor some tourneys or a mini con.

I'd say that gaming in-store is a must. Off-hand, I can't think of any gaming product I can't get online for cheaper than what I'd pay in a B&M store. That means my sole motivation to buy from a store is to support the venue in which I play. I'd definitely look into limited / focussed stock, backed up by a fast, flexible special order option.

I'd also recommend the CCG lines. Any game-store manager I've talked to swore by them, and one referred to Yu-Gi-Oh as a license to print money.

Look into a presence on social media like Facebook. Two successful stores I know have made good use of it for promotional purposes.

I live just outside the GTA. I prefer to buy stuff i can look at and hold and so avoid buying of the net, but it is getting harder to avoid. I used to visit Crossed Swords in Toronto regularly but it suffers from too much old stock that hasn't changed price in years. For me, stores that have too restricted a choice are boring (Ex. the stores nearest mein Hamilton & Burlington carry TONS of flames of war… But little else in WWII. Obviously the big sellers would have more shelf space, but some 'other stuff' would be great. As for gaming space, I think it is a necessary evil. I would never game in a store but I think it brings the younger crowd in. As long as the staff can pull themselves away from games when necessary, i think it must be a positive for the store. Good luck and let us know when you are having agrand opening.