"Involuntary Movement in Tactical Gaming" Topic

In small unit tactical gaming (squad to platoon per side, company at most), what's your favorite approach for moving "fleeing" or retreating units? Requirements and restrictions?

These situations can often get messy as opposing fire teams and squads get intermingled. And tactically it's not like there are always clear "rear lines" to which to flee. In fact, in many cases, fleeing in ANY direction might bring sub-units into greater danger (think isolated American platoon or company in Vietnan orStarship troopers fighting on a Bug Planet).

So what's your favorite "involuntary movement" mechanics in small unit gaming?

Random usually prevents people from gaming the system to turn their "fleeing" into "attacking in another direction."

So what's your favorite "involuntary movement" mechanics in small unit gaming?

This one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note

Good question

We use the "best straight line away form the enemy" – but random would make a lot of sense, especially small unit (where – after all – who knows what is the best straight line away from the enemy?)

We use away from current firing. You would think a person would want to go back toward where they last thought was safe.

So what's your favorite "involuntary movement" mechanics in small unit gaming?

When a unit's morale fails it will attempt to flee away from the perceived threat. If that brings it into the range of another threat then in turn it will react to that.

Simple.

I like mechanisims that offer random panic movement.

As Margard said…..but add will continue to a safe area.

Straight away from the enemy units seems logical in many cases, but if there is cover to the rear, they'll probably move to that first, if possible, even if it isn't 180 degrees away from their opponent(s).

I like ASL approach: rout away from known enemy units, into buildings/rubble/woods. If you should rout toward other known enemy unit or if the said unit becomes known and you can't maintain, at least, your distance from it, your unit fails to rout. Failure to rout will force the routed unit to surrender. If no-quarter rules are in effect, the unit is wiped out.

In our system, you can route back 6 hexes, and you become a more difficult target. The enemy can only chase at the run for 5 hexes. The theory being you own and therefore know the ground.

I am reminded of many computer gaming sessions, with my panicked squaddies running away sometimes logically sometimes randomly, sometimes just cowering if in cover or in a building….in xcom enemy unknown , always liked that

I really like the way KISS rommel handles this for large scale games (a dozen units = 1 Division), and I think it would work just as well for skirmish gaming.

When a figure breaks under fire, it is removed from the table and placed in a reserves pile for that section or platoon. He has basically gone out of contact with the unit, and is presumably making his way through the undergrowth back towards a friendlier crowd.

Section / Platoon commanders then roll dice (or spend command points, or whatever), to bring these errant soldiers back into the combat formation as effectives.

Simple and effective.

You mean like a tic?

How 'tactical' are we talking?

At the single-squad-per-side or individual-model-activation level (ie, Infinity), that figure would go to nearest cover from the threat, and/or drop prone.

A fireteam would likely simply move to nearest cover as well.

I will have to ask a serving professional that I know what happens if you can actually manage to 'break' (cause to panic) an American military unit.

II have found Involuntary Movement during a game can be prevented by avoiding one of my wife's industrial-grade curries on club night….

In the 6mm Rules HELLFIRE, there are two forms of involuntary retreat as a reaction test result – "In good order" which means to the nearest cover, while still able to return fire at enemy forces in range, and "Panic" in which they go directly away from the enemy without being able to fire and may in fact spend another turn heading toward cover.

DS2 has elements retreat in either Broken form ( into nearby cover) or Routed ( Toward their own baseline or the nearest edge of the board away form the enemy).

I think fleeing the battlefield is something that people used to do in the pre-smokeless powder age. I would think today you would hit the dirt and stay there until the danger has passed. Surely movement just draws more fire?

Given the size of most skirmish game's battlefields, no, its not unrealistic for them to run.

The "Run backwards regardless of cover" thing is unrealistic though.

But all the time, if you think you are losing a fight, you leave the fight. Cover just allows you to do this more effectively.

My general rules are
1) Never flee to an area that puts you closer to any enemy (not just the one that caused the panic). If all possible routes involve moving closer to an enemy unit (i.e. the unit is surrounded) then surrender (unless the enemy doesn't take prisoners).
2) Always run to nearest cover, if no cover is available proceed to rule 3.
3) Run as far away from the enemy as possible (i.e. avoid terrain that will slow you down).

Another option (if you throw 'combat behavior modeling' into the mix) is to have the survivors in the unit bunch up around a heavy weapon or an officer instead of running. I would have a roll to determine the chance of that happening (which could well mess up the player's plans of what he wants the unit to do.)

I like what happens in Crossfire. As stands get pinned and suppressed (especially suppressed which is harder to rally) you have to decide whether it's worth it to try and rally them. Since failure means losing the initiative they tend to get left behind and your combat power erodes over time even if many of your troops are still alive.

According to a practicing professional, you can actually get the US Army to panic on occasion. Not that it happens often (currently fighting the wrong kind of war), but it has happened.

He recommends that any unit that has taken 1/3 casualties be considered combat ineffective, as they would be too busy doing casevac.

For the classic "ride to the village, dismount, sweep village" lather, rinse, repeat op: if the village was really a nasty ambush, with casualties left, right, and center, then the troops would break contact (using an immediate-action drill), and pull casualties back towards the 'deployment zone' as represented by the transports.

Unless the fire was too heavy to do that. If the fire was really heavy, troops hunker down and scream for mortars, arty, armor, and air support.

But even during a "mass-confusion drill," there's still going to be a lot of discipline in the motion. Once the troops are back under cover, they're going to have to re-organize themselves.

@ThorLongus – I have fond memories of how X-COM troops used to react when panicing. :)

That sums up what I have read, and the psychology of men trained to fight is supposed to be that when they "Panic" they go into an "Automatic" mode that causes them to execute an instinctive set of behaviors.

There is a difference between a soldier that has not previously been intentionally placed under extreme stress until they broke (in a controlled or semi-controlled environment) so as to reinforce or reify a set of behaviors that has been trained, and a soldier (no matter how well drilled otherwise) who has never been so stressed at all.

This is why there are many accounts of modern soldiers who find themselves suddenly in another place, but having brought with them any casualties that might have occurred prior to the temporal displacement. The soldier has "gone on automatic" due to stress and then recovered, to have discovered that he performed everything that he had been trained to do in such a situation to minimize casualties and protect his fellow soldiers.

Pretty much everyone does this when they panic. The problem is that most people have not ever trained themselves for the event that they do panic. So most people will run away from a dangerous thing instinctively. Yet very complex and seemingly intentional behaviors can be trained to be executed while in such a state.

Alex;

This somewhat reminds me of several board games played many years ago, especially some form S&T/SPI, where one result of panic was the unit/counter went berserk and actually charged the nearest enemy rather then either hunkering down or seeking the nearest cover.

The Close Combat PC game series had an interesting system. Troops could hit the dirt and stop fighting, break and run, or surrender.

The challenge in miniature gaming is making such interesting reactions playable by being clear and easy to execute.

Maybe a simple proximity rule for "broken" troops? No enemy within X" it runs, otherwise it surrenders?

"Troops could hit the dirt and stop fighting, break and run, or surrender."

Why not just throw a dice when they hit their 'break point' then? (Which is all CC did under the hood)

1-2 hide, 3-4, run away, 5-6 surrender.

irl I rather think finding cover and hiding in it is the most likely reaction, find your way back once all the firing dies down or after dark or until a very angry NCO appears and gives you a kick.

Depends what we mean by 'break' of course.

Certainly in WW2 there was instances of panic, platoons literally running away instead of just taking cover. Mass conscript armies poorly trained of course.

I hate to do this in a game, but I really think that you would have to use two different morale rules. One classic 'when in danger or in doubt, run in circles scream and shout' uncontrolled panic for poorly trained troops, and another much more controlled version for well-trained troops.

Ambush Alley does a good job of this, calling the poorly-trained troops 'insurgents.' Insurgents suffer 'shrink' as members sneak off under fire, and the whole insurgent 'fireteam' can just evaporate in the event of a completely blown morale check.

Back to my 'sweep&clear the village' op example: Troops move out from their 'deployment zone' into the village. BOOOM! Ambush front! Man down, man down!

This assumes some level of pinning/suppression in the rules.

If the troops are not pinned by fire, then they would fall back cover to cover while evacuating casualties.

If the troops are pinned by fire, well, you may be screwed.

But remember that I said this is after taking about 1/3 casualties. Until then, not much loss of C&C, at least in highly-professional forces.

Actually in CC the reactions weren't random. The morale for each individual soldier is tracked and reactions were based on incoming fire, nearby casualties, cover, and proximity to enemy. A lot to consider for manual tabletop gaming. It can and has been done, but it can be labourious.

Here is the section of my home-made rules for my online games that pertains:

EFFECT OF FIRE ON MORALE:
Check morale when hit by infantry or HE: Roll according to the type of cover:
• Standing in Open: 1d20
• Moving in Open: 1d12
• Down in Open: 1d10
• in foxhole or trench: 1d6
• in bunker or overhead cover: 1d4
The target unit needs to roll as low as or lower than its current morale rating as modified (see below).
• If the roll is higher than the morale rating, the unit is pinned.
• If the roll is twice the morale rating, the unit is suppressed and its morale rating is lowered by 1.
• If the roll is three times the morale rating, the unit will surrender to any enemy within 100m (if no enemy unit that close, it will retreat on its next move), unless in hard cover, in which case it is suppressed and its morale rating is lowered by 2.
Modifier: Subtract 1 (permanently) from the morale rating for each casualty caused by this fire.

In my rules morale in normally checked by squads/crews, not individuals.

Not my mechanical idea, just something that I've seen.

I'm still trying to figure out how to reasonably model 'panicky' troops, but the best descriptions I can get out of my friend basically boil down to "if you fail the morale check and are not pinned by fire, troops fall back towards the DZ/CCP. Once there, they are going to have to re-organize (rally). If the troops are pinned down, [currently fight to the death, enemy does not take prisoners]"