"Bavarian blue in WSS" Topic

Some times ago, I asked for help in determining the shade of bavarian coats in WSS.
I've received much help, so now I would like to share some thoughts, I published on my blog: link

The traditional color for Bavarians has always been "cornflower blue", but the formulation of that color of dye no doubt has varied depending on the era and the manufacturer

the formulation of that color of dye no doubt has varied depending on the era and the manufacturer

That.

It should be remembered too that paintings can not be relied on as strict historical documents. Artists often take liberties with tone and hue to create a better picture.

It should be remembered too that paintings can not be relied on as strict historical documents. Artists often take liberties with tone and hue to create a better picture

Paintings by Franz-Joachim Beich were commisioned by Max Emmanuel himself and diplayed in elector's palace, as a memory of past victories.
Having no other evidence, I would trust the color chosen by the painter, especially when another contemporary artwork support it. Note, that two pictures, using two different techniques ('al fresco' and oil on canvas) show very similar shade of blue.

Personally, I use Stone Mountain's "Bavarian Blue" paint.

@ maciek72,

I know there is 100 years' difference, which could mean a lot in terms of the actual tone of the blue, but having looked into Napoleonic Bavarian uniforms in some detail using surviving cloth and contemporary paintings, I think your approach is probably the most sensible. For example, you could easily go mad comparing the early 19th Century Bavarian artist Kobel's depiction of Bavarian troops

with the less-than-reliable Lienhart & Humbert:

link

and the much more highly respected Cantler, who shows considerable variation in his "cornflower blue" even when depicting the same units over just a few years:-

link

The only caveat you might want to note is that the men in the siege painting you show on your site are gunners, who wore a very light grey-blue coat which was most definitely NOT the same colour as that worn by the infantry (although it is possible some of the figures are meant to be infantrymen).

@ Connard Sage,

<<Artists often take liberties with tone and hue to create a better picture.>>

Excellent point. To which I would add that you also have problems depending on which medium (oil, watercolour etc) was being used and the age/location/storage conditions of the painting during its life. For example, the top painting in the link maciek72 provided looks like a watercolour – and a very faded one at that! One of the problems of this medium is that dark colours are almost impossible to depict accurately and very often artists did not even try to replicate it (look at any 18th/19th Century watercolour of British gunners and how their "royal blue" coats are depicted, and you can see what I mean).

@Supercilius Maximus
As Bavarian artillerymen wore grey in WSS (and you can indeed find grey-clad figures manning the gunson the painting), I think that blue-coated ones are actually infantrymen commanded to the siege artillery.

Top painting in my post is fresco, not watercolour.

Generally, I agree with you about fading colours, etc. but I would repeat: "having no other evidence …"

You could ask the Bavarian army museum or the Bavarian Kriegsarchiv. They have email addresses on their sites.
There are pics of several uniforms through the ages in one of the army museum guidebooks – the Bunten Rock one I think. The DE Wikipedia might have what you want.

The problem with period garments that still exist in museums, etc is that it is very likely that the intervening 200 years have faded and/or otherwise changed the hue that the garment's dye originally displayed.

How do you say "cornflower blue" in Bavarian German? I bet that no Bavarian dye supplier ever heard of that color. They probably just used blue dye and the shade varied a lot and changed a lot during campaign. Then, some 20th century existentially effervescent clothing designer just announced that blue is "cornflower blue". Ever since wargamers without imagination just look that non existent color invented by Crayola :-)

How do you say "cornflower blue" in Bavarian German?

That would be 'Kornblumenblau' :)

link

I believe kornblumenblau has been officially associated with the Wittelsbach dynasty for several centuries.

Is that the color of cornflower?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornflower

@IGWARD1: Correct, though to further confuse matters, cornflowers can often be found in lighter and darker hues.

I gathered up some Kornblumen while last in Germany. Mix in some thinner and paint my Bavarians and Prussian Dragoons. Didn't work!!