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"Imaginations in the World of Greyhawk?" Topic


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noimtheotherguy04 Feb 2012 8:25 p.m. PST

Forgive me if I've gone a little nutty with this, but I am really getting into the idea. Anyway, the idea struck me, what about using the old D&D World of Greyhawk as a source for imaginations? It is heavily documented (example: link with, in many cases, place descriptions and maps already made:

picture

Consider the above small section:

Ket: Armies much like the Ottoman Turks, though my view would be a little more aggressive and less socially advanced/decadent. Lots of regulars in Lopolla, with Bashi-Bazouks patrolling the borders. Considered the biggest threat to it's southern and eastern neighbors.

Veluna: Still a theocracy, though I'd experiment with the idea of a parliamentary theocracy, it would be much like Austria-Hungary.

Bissel, Gran March and Duchy of Ulek: These are modelled on the Balkan states, quarrelling with each other but frightened enough of Ket to make common cause. However, each of these realms has allied with or paid tribute to the Beygraf at different times, and would likely do so again if the threat or reward was great enough.

Furyondy: Modelled after France (which, supposedly, it was in Gygax' world). It is probably the most militarily powerful of the eastern nations (note that east and west reverse in the WoG; East is Europe, West is the land of the Turks and Tartars), it nonetheless has powerful neighbors/enemies itself, and can spare only a fraction of its strength to aid its ally, Veluna, against the Beygraf's hordes. There is Iuz (now a completely totalitarian state) on its northern border, where it keeps the majority of its troops.

However, the Furyondian Foreign Legion is often sent west when the kingdom's interests so require.

Celene: I see this as an Italian-like state, before unification. Cultured and considered one of the gems of th world for it's art and literature, its lands are nonetheless divided into petty, warring city-states, which a true leader has yet to arise to rule. Veluna and Furyondy tend to back this or that city-state in an effort to keep another power from arising in their backyards.

"19th Century" World of Greyhawk

It would not, technically, be the 19th Century, but probably the 10th Century CY (Common year), I'm guessing maybe 250 years after the Dwarven Resurgence (Dragon mag #277)

As to magic…

Many would want to keep this out of their imaginations, or at least tone it way down. Believe it or not, this should not be hard. After all, our own ancestors, some three hundred years back or so, still firmly believed in magic, though it is generally scoffed at today.

"What? Elves and dwarves? And that lunatic Iuz up north who thought he was a demigod? Sure, ignorant peasants used to believe in that stuff, but who does now? You feeling all right?"

Alternatively, you could have units of elven hussars, dwarven artillery and goblin azabs to your heart's content. The really fun compromise, however, might be to have magic fade into the backgroun a bit. Perhaps the monsters who didn't die off moved to some adjacent, shadowy, faery realm. Maybe the drow still have great powers, not so much as sorcerers and warriors but as war financiers…

Just an idea.

21eRegt04 Feb 2012 9:00 p.m. PST

There is another imagi-nation based on Elric of Melniboné. More or less an 18th century style army with uniform colors as depicted in the books. Don't have the link but it seems well thought out and with this idea much of the work is already done.

Why not? Anything we do with toys is already a fantasy of sorts.

noimtheotherguy04 Feb 2012 9:02 p.m. PST

Why not? Anything we do with toys is already a fantasy of sorts.

I AGREE COMPLETELY! But watch who you say that to. Some grognards can get remarkably touchy on that issue.

noimtheotherguy04 Feb 2012 9:08 p.m. PST

Yes. The Dwarven Resurgence. I wish I could get that article. I think I'll go and see if drivethrurpg has it.

Dogged05 Feb 2012 6:19 a.m. PST

A great idea! Absolutely approppiate!

epturner05 Feb 2012 8:12 a.m. PST

That's pretty cool, actually.

Eric

noimtheotherguy05 Feb 2012 8:16 a.m. PST

Thanks gentlemen.

scotty0805 Feb 2012 11:17 a.m. PST

seems a great idea to me

abdul666lw05 Feb 2012 12:23 p.m. PST

Sounds to my old ears old fart very 'Castle Falkenstein' in more Imagi-Native …
talsorian.com/cfindex.shtml
talsorian.com/linkcf.shtml
link

picture

picture

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(as I remember even a few minis were produced for the game)
And thus full of appeal.

Though for me I'd prefer to have the story of this continent developed from a mid-18th C. technical level to start with (wink)
TMP link

picture

- a 'steam power based' matching of the 'bioengineering based' world of the Monster Blood Tattoo.
link
link
http://monsterbloodtattoo.blogspot.com/
picture

link
link
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Could evolve to 'Victorian' technological level as the campaign goes (in David Drake and Eric Flint's 'Belisarius' series link under the pressure of war and with some… E.T. help, warfare progressed from early Byzantine to ACW in a few years)


'Melnibonéan' "Elves" are indeed set in the 18th C.
TMP link
link

abdul666lw05 Feb 2012 1:55 p.m. PST

Years ago I exchanged mails with a wargamer intending to develop a 'not-SYW' campaign on a continent of the Fantasy RPG planet Harn (not a blogger, unfortunately).

I'm on two minds about the co-occurence of advanced science and magic (Shadowrun fashion) because they are largely redundant. Any science advanced enough cannot be distinguished from magic. In Keyes' Age of Unreason link series Isaac Newton discovered the Laws of Alchemy and warships, submarines, flying boats are propelled by 'spirits', a 'kraftpistol' shoots a fireball. Yet in practice the resultant civilization is quite similar to a 'steam based' 18th C. Sci-Fi, or the 'advanced biology' 18th C. world of the 'Monster Blood Tattoo'.

Yet it could be interesting to have countries / cultures distrusting magic and developing 'Jules Vernesque' technology facing other with opposite prejudices?
Franklin, Mesmer, Montgolfier… were fashionable in the same time as Cagliostro and de Saint-Germain (and I guess many people then did not see a real difference between the two type), so… But who will choose what? Neither the Encyclopedists nor the Churches favored magic…

As for non-human races… of course 'Flintloque' has them in Napoleonic garb, but I'm not convinced by the traditional 'caricatural / cartoonish' appearance. It dates largely from pre-literate times, when story tellers and illustrators distorted / exaggerated the 'exotic'. See how medieval bestiaries depicted some real animals, seals for instance (or the cotton tree as a sheep put upside down above a trunk!). Elves are generally 'credible', but I have difficulties to accept Dwarves with the knees either at the hip or at the ankle! 22mm (1/72) minis with greenstuff beards among 28mm ones, on the other hand…

George Krashos05 Feb 2012 2:42 p.m. PST

Sorry to go off-topic but thanks for putting up Dragon #277. The "Five blades of legend" were mine!:)

-- George Krashos

Whitewolf3605 Feb 2012 6:42 p.m. PST

I love this idea. That's what's so attractive about the Imagin-nation concept- anything will work. I think I'll borrow this for SYW.

skippy000105 Feb 2012 8:01 p.m. PST

It would work for a 20's-30's Imagination also.

abdul666lw05 Feb 2012 10:44 p.m. PST

Would work for several periods, and it would even not be inconvenient that different (sub)groups use it at distant enough periods. Who in 1750 could have imagined the political geography of 1871? And who by then could have predicted that of 1919?

abdul666lw06 Feb 2012 12:55 p.m. PST

Steampunk 'Elves' don't have to be semi-immortal magical creatures (even if a few gifted individual show some paranormal abilities). They can breed true with humans (a rare event for cultural / ethical reasons) so belong to the same biological species. A subspecies of Homo sapiens having diverged probably before the individualization of the Cro-Magnon line and evolved in isolation, keeping fiercely its 'blood purity'. Moorcock's Melnibonéans (and Vadhaghs) correspond to such subspecies. Tall, slim, with high cheek bones, narrow chin, slightly slanting 'cat's eyes', so slightly pointed ears. They also seem to correspond to the (extinct?) 'giants' who build these citadels of glassy green stone Conan discovers in several parts of his world.
Yet the differences with normal humans are mainly psychological -ethical, cultural. An immense certitude of their total superiority, mental and physical, leading to a deep contempt of 'semi-animal' other humans. Even if their semi-divine origin ('Angels' half-breed Nephilim en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim, or their Gibborim immediate descendants) is seen as mythical, they indeed can enjoy a significantly higher life expectancy (hence their repulsion to mate with 'short lived' humans: to them, the offsprings of such union hideously die of Progeria en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progeria). And they don't have Spock-like pointed ears (I suspect such date from Disney's 'Peter Pan' TMP link).

As for Orcs imho they are a distorted, maligned, prejudiced rendition of Neanderthals à la 13th Warrior or Conan's Picts by illiterate groups translating 'graphically' their slight 'strangeness'.
Look at the illustration of medieval bestiaries, and how some real animals (seals, spermwhales…) and even plants (cotton tree: a sheep upside down on the top of a trunk!) are depicted and drawn!
As for the 'green' skin, olivâtre in French is used to depict the Lebaneses and Hindus.

rorymac07 Feb 2012 2:19 p.m. PST

I happen to be one who is using the world of Harn for a 19th century imagination campaign I am working on. The armies will be painted historically, but the nations and the issues affecting them won't be. Harn has some great maps and although the demographics info is scarce in places, there is enough to extrapolate population figures, etc. I am doing this in 15mm with the 19th century figs from Old Glory. Maybe some day I will finish (or at least get enough painted to game with)!

Russ

IronMike07 Feb 2012 5:45 p.m. PST

I've always had a weak spot for Greyhawk, and turning it into an Imagi-nation continent sounds like a smashing idea!

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