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"Armour levels in ancients & medieval rules" Topic

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824 hits since 3 Feb 2012
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Comments or corrections?

Marshal Mark03 Feb 2012 8:33 a.m. PST

In my rules
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the defense level of a unit is the number required to hit. Each unit rolls a certain number of dice, each one that exceeds the opposing units Defense level causes a hit. Unit causing highest number of hits wins the combat. Any modifiers change the number of dice rolled. So its a pretty simple mechanism that can be used without reference to tables and charts (there are just few modifiers to the number of dice rolled, that can be easily memorised).
The trouble is, using D6s (and I want to stick with D6s) it doesn't give many possible armour levels. I have :
Def 3 – unarmoured
Def 4 – Chain etc covering most of body
Def 5 – Plate covering most of body
Shield adds 1 to Defense level when fighting to the front (also vs missiles if Large Shield).
I would like to be able to differentiate a bit more between armour classes, for example having a better Defense than 5 for full plate with barded horse. But Def 6 would be too good, as it would half the number of hits compared to Def 5.
My current solution is 5+, which means each 6 and pair of 5s rolled causes a hit.
Any other suggestions? I was thinking maybe a class 5b for barded horse, where it normally counts as Def 5 but is better (Def 6) in some circumstances (vs missiles, 1st round of combat, something like that ?)
It is a limitation of D6s, but I want to stick with them whilst keeping the system simple and easy to remember.

Connard Sage Inactive Member03 Feb 2012 8:35 a.m. PST

You want WRG 6th edition Ancients, you do.

Or maybe Shock of Impact, but I wouldn't wish them on anyone.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP03 Feb 2012 9:12 a.m. PST

How about Fast Play Newbury Ancients?
It's a definitive entrant in the Oxymoronic Title Hall of Fame.

Connard Sage Inactive Member03 Feb 2012 9:13 a.m. PST

Ooh, I'd forgotten them.

…and now you've reminded me, you &*@#

Keraunos Inactive Member03 Feb 2012 9:37 a.m. PST

I'd forget the shield +1
- shields were abandoned in the M period for a reason – the armour was good enough to not need it.

that gives you more room to spread your numbers

also, a – 1 vs unbarded horses if LB or XB better reflects things than a +1 for being barded

- when French knights got shot down on unbarded horses by LB, they dismounted (without shields), so your current approach won't reflect that, but ignoring shields and having a basic LB/XB -1 vs mounted until the barding of the late M period, will reflect thigns better.

normal bows/ javs/ slings etc shouldn't get any bonus against unbarded horses – as it will force you to over power the LB and XB with a -2, which would be too much.

religon Inactive Member03 Feb 2012 10:20 a.m. PST

The "bucket of dice" approach can provide the math you want and stick with the d6.

Hypothetically, an attacker has 3d6. Any 5's or 6's are effective. The defender rolls opposing dice to match the "Defense." 5's or 6's prevent damage.

Just toy with the numbers until they are balanced to the type of game you seek.

6sided Inactive Member03 Feb 2012 11:08 a.m. PST

Have three classes, no armour, light armour and heavy armour. Then give a bonus against fire for full plate. Sorted.



Who asked this joker03 Feb 2012 12:38 p.m. PST

Here's how I grade armor. It has worked very well.

1 No Armor
2 Body Armor OR Shield
3 Body Armor and Shield OR Early Plate Armor
4 Early Plate Armor and Shield OR Later Plate Armor

You can apply those any way you like. For me it was to make saving throws if the unit is hit. 6+ 5+ 4+ etc…

For the very best, you could have armor piercing weapons that lower the defense number by 1. Guys with Poleaxes would be able to injure a fully armored man more easily than a guy with a sword.

Patrice Inactive Member03 Feb 2012 12:45 p.m. PST

He he. All of us run in the same questions.

I have faced the same question for my 1:1 skirmish rules "Argad!" – and the same 3, 4, 5, armour classes for D6 :-)

15th century armour was much better than 14th century armour. 14th century knights did carry a shield, 15th century knights did not – or only a small buckler than you can treat differently in the rules. You don't have a large shield with 15th century armour, you can consider it is included in the armour.

corporalpat Inactive Member03 Feb 2012 7:18 p.m. PST

Come to the Dark Side…try D10 there's more wiggle room! grin

just visiting Inactive Member04 Feb 2012 8:18 a.m. PST

Marshal, do this by sub-periods. If you try for the kind of detail you want using single d6s, across the ancmed era, you'll just frustrate yourself.

I agree that three armor categories is enough for a given period.

An example of three armor categories might be:

"1066 and all that jazz" Unarmored: no helm, armor or shield of any kind; heavy clothing allowed. Armored light: Helm, shield. Armored heavy: Helm, shield and mail.

A contrasting, later period might be: "14th to 15th century, the era of plate" Unarmored: simple helm, quilted jack, or a buckler. Armored light: helm, buckler, mail shirt or breastplate, etc. Armored heavy: full plate armor.

Then mounted troops on armored horses would get a +1 or something over their unarmored horse opponents who are wearing equal armor….

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