"Ethnicity and RPG's" Topic

I just got off the phone with my brother and he posed a question I just couldn't answer.

He asked me if all fantasy races were always white skinned? I told him there were different versions of elves – Dark elves having a different skin tone and I thought that deep dwarfs are dark skinned as well. I mentioned Sea elves and he wanted to know if there were sea dwarfs?

He asked if there was any difference between them and I said there might be a few rules or stat bonuses that make them different from one another but I don't remember that stuff anymore.

He asked if you get bonuses for being different human ethnicity and I was totally stumped. I cannot recall in a RPG where if you were black, white, yellow, or brown having any affect on character generation. So he wanted to know why being a dark dwarf would get you bonuses but why all humans are counted the same. I'd never thought about it and he had to go before we could finish the conversation.

I'd love any feedback on his question,

DZT

Oh and I have no clue how he came to this question we had been discussing Dwarf Fortress right before he blurted it out.

Stuff like that happens maybe.
Dunno.

Yes all humans have the same stats.
Not all dwarves have the same stats.
Not all spiders have the same stats.

Why?
In the world of fantasy maybe humans are humans regardless.
In the real world you have sub classes of feline, lizards, fish and so on.
So maybe in fantasy worlds you have significant sub classes of some other races too?

That is not explained very well but I reckon you get my jist.

I am pretty sure Middle Earth RPG had different stats for its different humans?

Depends on the game world. I have seen many campaign worlds where being from different countries altered your stats or skills. Same for elves and such, we just view them more plainly. In Dragonlance for example, there are Wild Elves, Wood Elves and High Elves. But then they are also Kagonesti, Qualintesti, and Silvanesti, which could be viewed just as their nationality instead. I didn't play 3rd edition Dragonlance, but perhaps if you were Solomnian you had different stats than if you were from Ergoth, if not they should have ;)

My Skaven are all different colors, and the different colors have different stats, abilities, and social standing.

I suspect that no RPG maker wants to be accused of racism, hence no differentiation among human races as regards to stats or abilities. The most you might see are differentations to known skills or technological levels based on a culture being depicted, but that's about it.

As to the differences among dwarf and elven races (or sub-races?), I believe the stat changes are based on assumptions about how the sub-races formed and where they primarily lived. The "dark elves" lived in deep caverns rather than out in the sunlit world, so their abilities and appearance reflect the "ecological adaptions" they would need to dwell there— greater ability to see in the dark, etc.. Their aboveground cousins, however, have abilities related to their woodland or "civilized" environments, respectively. So there is some logic behind the differences.

The Iron Kingdoms (the rpg setting that spawned WarmaHordes) setting had stat/skill bonuses and penalties for various human ethnicities which they got in addition to all the good stuff that humans normally get.

In the fantasy world Carcosa, humanity was created by serpentmen as sacrificial fuel for magical rituals. Different colors of humanity reflect a different flavor of sacrificial fuel. The colors are _different_. White humans in Carcosa are white like paint, black carcosans are black like guiness. Likewise green and other colors not present in our normal vision.
Yeah, so there are rituals in the game requiring sacrifices of specific colored carcosans. The game has, shall we say, some not safe for work elements.

LBW, are those Iron Kingdom ethnicities directly derived from real world ethnic groups, or are they unique to the setting? I suspect (or at least hope) that the bonuses and penalties don't follow all-too-common ethnic stereotypes (even if positive ones).

If I recall correctly Middle Earth Role Playing had different bonuses for different human ethnicities. Aslo the RPG Man, Myth, Magic set during the Roman Empire had different bonuses and skills for different cultures-I think the ethnic classes were Roman, Greek, Gallic, Irish, Germanic (maybe they called it 'Gothic', Briton, Egyptian, Jewish, and African.

Back in the mists of time, when I made my own AD&D world (the edition with THACO and non-weapon proficiencies, whatever THAT was), if a human came from a certain nation, they got two "bonus" NWP at character creation, but were generally unskilled in other areas.

I would think it would be more nationally based meaning where they came from (born, grew up together); you can have people of different Ethnicity who come from the same place yet share the same culture and same training and so on.

If they are different nationalities then I think it could make a difference as different nation have different values.

LBW, are those Iron Kingdom ethnicities directly derived from real world ethnic groups, or are they unique to the setting? I suspect (or at least hope) that the bonuses and penalties don't follow all-too-common ethnic stereotypes (even if positive ones).

Only loosely; the main human races are differently flavors of European ethnicities (several flavors of Russian/Eastern Europeans, some Nordic types, and some blond Persian types). Those of non-white ethnicities get lumped in with the above.

Paizo's Golarion campaign setting has 12 different ethnicities for their humans, who are very distinct. Except for one ethnicity, there are no bonuses or penalties for them during creation other than roleplaying aspects. All the non-humans pretty much only have one ethnicity though.

As to why there are no stat bonuses/penalties for different ethnicities, I suspect most companies are trying to avoid any unpleasant questions over why one human ethnicity has a higher intelligence than another, or why one may not be good at reading while another is. Things like that.

2nd ed AD&D has a campaign setting called Birthright that gave bonuses and penalties to stats based on nationality.

Pendragon by Greg Stafford also includes bonuses (and a few penalties) based on nationality. Pendragon may be particularly interesting to you because the nationalities are from the real world; So being Danish gets you a +3 to size, a +3 to strength, and a -3 to dexterity.

Warhammer roleplay 1st and 2nd edition have humans, elves, dwarfs and hobbits. each have their own variable basic stats and it was the careers they chose throughout the game that created the most variation.

In the WFB world, high, dark and wood elves all have the same physical characteristics. chaos dwarfs i think are different to normal dwarfs in some respects, but then they are tainted by chaos afterall…

I agree that it's probably easier for them to aggressively and actively ignore ethnicity than to accidentally do something that gets them accused of racism.

2nd ed AD&D has a campaign setting called Birthright that gave bonuses and penalties to stats based on nationality.

Which it might be worth mentioning did include a non-white race (Khinasi – dark skinned arabs with +1 Intelligence and -1 Constitution).

MERP humans are basically all the same except for cultural differences. Certain races have some special bonuses in the racial descriptions but the only stat bonus humans get is +5 Strength. In adolescent development all races, including the many different human races, get skills, languages, and background points based on their culture. Background points can be used not only for additional skills and abilities, but possible stat increases as well. Culture and language, of course, are what make the various human races unique in MERP, not stats.

LBW, are those Iron Kingdom ethnicities directly derived from real world ethnic groups, or are they unique to the setting? I suspect (or at least hope) that the bonuses and penalties don't follow all-too-common ethnic stereotypes (even if positive ones).

Only loosely; the main human races are differently flavors of European ethnicities (several flavors of Russian/Eastern Europeans, some Nordic types, and some blond Persian types). Those of non-white ethnicities get lumped in with the above.

Essentially, in the Iron Kingdoms skin colour is like hair or eye colour – in the same way some Europeans are blond and some have brown or red hair, some Caspains (the majority ethnic/cultural group in Cygnar) just happen to be black. A black Caspian has the same ehtnic stat bonuses as a white Caspian, and different bonuses to a black Llaelese.

F.A.T.A.L. almost certainly does have modifiers for being of a different "race", but that's probably best left alone.

DZT wrote:

"He asked if you get bonuses for being different human ethnicity and I was totally stumped."

I think the first question I would ask would be, "Are there circumstances that would warrant a special bonus for being a different ethnicity in the human race?" and then talk about it with your brother to see if it makes sense or not to go that deep in detail with respect to character building.

I don't do "ethnic bonuses" within my human race characters but instead I'll do "regional bonuses". For example, if you were born on or even just raised in the icy continent of my world, you're less affected by cold weather or frost attacks (typical video RPG type of bonus). If you were born in the desert region, you're not affected by heat as much as other regions.

I do use general racial bonuses though. For example, Elves get certain dexterity bonuses, Dwarves get constitution bonuses, etc. etc. etc. That seems fairly standard in fantasy RPGs.

The Iron Kingdoms (the rpg setting that spawned WarmaHordes) setting had stat/skill bonuses and penalties for various human ethnicities which they got in addition to all the good stuff that humans normally get.

To be fair, there aren't a lot of non-humans in the Iron Kingdoms. Pretty much everyone is human, with a few exceptions.

But the major bonuses are things like "Most vikings are big and strong, so vikings get +2 strength and +2 constitution."

They all make sense based on the physical descriptions of the ethnic group.

Rolemaster, rather than middle earth roleplaying did have different forms of human, but all where based on middle earth groups rather than our world ethnic groups.

For RW ethnic groups, individual variation is just so great that it blurs out any real chance to get a specific set. Besides as has been mentioned, potential law suits trump any possible in game consideration. Besides, andybody that wants to can crank in thier own predjudices just fine if they want to.

Owen

So much for my L.A. Riots RPG then…. oh well.