"1st Belgian Independent Brigade Group" Topic

Hi, running up against a brick wall with various sources stating different things, so here goes;
1. were the Independent Motorised Units battalion strength or company strength like the dutch?
2. i assume the Belgian/Luxembourg Field Artillery Battery was three batteries of 4 guns?
3. the Belgian Engineer Field Company again I assume that this was organised along british lines (not really my assumption but fire and fury's)

cheers
jon

RMD is usualy spot on and has done some fantastic work over on the FF site . Battlefront WW2 TO&Es are very very good.
you can also try the GUILD Forum they have some excelent info..also try the Yahoo TO&E group …Good luck…..Mikey

British Field Artillery would not be in 4 gun batteries but 8 gun (or perhaps 6). That does not mean that the Belgians were though.

Hi Ciaphas,

1. The Belgian Motorised Groups were organised very similarly to British Motor Companies, each with three Motorised Infantry Platoons in trucks and a Scout Platoon in Carriers. The Dutch Groups were organised the same, but lacked the Scout Platoons. Heavy weapons sections were the same.

2. The terminology is slightly off, but the organisation and number of guns is correct. The Belgian/Luxembourg Battery was divided into three Troops (two Belgian and one Luxembourg), each of four guns. In other armies this would be a battalion, but in British terms it's a strong battery (British batteries had two such troops)! The Dutch Battery had six guns – off the top of my head I seem to remember that this was organised as three half-strength Troops.

3. Yes, the overall Engineer Company strength matches that of the British establishment, so it's a reasonably safe bet that it was organised into the British RE Field Company organisation of three platoons, each with six sections.

Look for "Brigade Piron", that is how this brigade group was commonly known and you will find more:

link
link
be4046.eu/BdePiron.htm

Fons
MMPS

", but in British terms it's a strong battery (British batteries had two such troops)!"

Earlier in the war (or pre war??), batteries of 12 guns with three troops of four were used, so it may have been a hangover from that.

It's true that the early-war battery was organised as 12 guns, but the Belgian Battery started out as a standard mid/late war eight-gun battery, but was then expanded to three troops.

It actually makes a lot of sense, as the intention was for the Dutch, Belgian and Czech Brigades to be all-arms, so that they could then form the nucleus for new armies once their home territory had been liberated. Thus a three-troop battery can easily be expanded to a regiment by calling each troop a battery, adding four guns, promoting everybody and adding a load of new recruits – this is actually what happened to the Belgian Battery during the winter of 1944/45.

Having a three-way split in the battery also meant that each Fighting Group (i.e. company) could have its own attached FOO and troop of guns.

I'm guessing that you've seen this:
PDF link
and this:
PDF link

Hi, I had seen the first link but not the second RMD, thanks again i have, I hope enough info. what I am trying to do is move a one to one company based game onto rapid fire.

cheers
jon