"Hesse - Geographically Speaking" Topic

I have been a bit of a amateur geneologist and have wondered about Hesse, geographically speaking that is.

My undestanding is that there were two German states named Hesse?

My grandmother literally came off the boat from Hesse and was born around 1906 or so. They emigrated to New Jersey when she was 7 I believe, so this would have been prior to unification and WWI. She was Catholic, which I believe to be rather rare in Germany?

Anyway, what is Hesse in terms of the following time periods:

0. Seven Years War and possibly prior.
1. American Revolution (Hessians, where did the come from?)
2. Napoleonic Period (both prior to Napoleon's partitioning of Germany, during his changes and after his loss)
3. Prior to WWI.
4. After Unification of Germany
5. Modern times

I looked up Hesse on Wikipedia but I still haven't gotten a good handle on the history of the state as far as geographic changes…

Any help is appreciated… even links…

My main interest is Lace Wars through the Napoleonic periods.

Actually, Catholics were and still are the majority in southern Germany. My family is Hessisch and most still live there. Hesse, like all German "regions" has had very fluid borders over the centuries. Hesse-Darmstadt and Hesse-Kassel are joined together in the modern German state of Hessen, which is plural for Hesse. In English, "Hesses"

From which did Sam Hessian come?

Doug

In the American Revolution, the term "Hessians" was generally applied to all German mercenary troops fighting for the British crown. They came from Hesse Kassel, Brunswick, Ansbach and probably a couple others that I can't recall.

Hesse-Kassel, Hesse-Hanau, Hesse-Fedora, Hesse-Harumph

Or you could call it Germany…

Eric

My point exactly, Eric, this is where I get confused! I understand about the combining of states into one Hesse now. So I suppose finding where my grandmother was from will require an exact birthplace and year as the borders were fluid? I wouldn't call it just Germany though, you do have Bavaria, Saxony, etc.

With regards to the AWI, yes I am aware of Hesse being used as a generic term. My query was on the actual Hesse itself which is now quite confusing as two principalities were named Hesse. Obviously they bordered each other by the time of combining the two.

David, thanks for the insight on Catholics in Germany. Of course the current Pope is Catholic but I assumed incorrectly that there weren't many in Germany at all. I suppose it is the North South divide which does make a lot of sense if you look at the 30YW history, etc. Ironically enough, my grandmother became Presbyterian later in life as she married one ;-) Then my father converted to Catholism in his 40's; lol!

Fritz, I lived in Ansbach as a child; my Dad was stationed there (the base closed at the end of its 50 year lease though) I wasn't into history back then and have only learned later in life how much happened in Ansbach over the years. I believe it had strategic importance in many wars too?

My mother's ancestry also comes from Prussia, hence the interest in the 18th and 19th centuries.

With regards to the 7YW and Napoleonic periods, I am assuming that Hesse was still independent during both periods and for both Hesses? Was one more militaristic than the other?

Gude ( good morning in hessian)

the "Hessen" is the high German word for Chatten i.e. the chatti in Latin. The Hessen of the Medieval age are in reality a mix of the Chatti and the Franks. The main City in Hessia is Frankfurt. Founded by Charlemagne when he crossed the river Main. In the 1st Reich became Frankfurt a free city and was considered independed hessian as the small duchies around it. Today, is the province of Hessen, created by the US after 1945 en encompasses the following duchies:
-Landgrafschaft Hessen (i.e. Hessen-Kassel)
- Hessen-Darmstadt
- Hessen-Rotenburg
- Hessen-Homburg
- Grafschaft Erbach
- Fürstentums Solms
- Parts of Herzogtums Nassau
- Grafschaft Hanau,
- Grafschaft Isenburg
- Fürstentums Waldeck,
- Fürstbistümer Mainz
- Fürstbistümer Fulda
- Free city of Frankfurt am Main,
- Free city Friedberg,
- Free city Gelnhausen
- Free city Wetzlar

In the Napoleonic Age fought the Hessians of this regions in the "Fremden Regiment Isenburg" on the French side in Spain and under Wilhelm of Orange in the Nassau regimenter at Quatre Bras and Waterloo against the French. The Hessians of Nassau held the garden of Hougemont at Waterloo.

The Hessians fought against Prussian in the Austro-Prussian War and were afterwards allies of Prussia in the Norddeutsche Bund und Zollunion. In 1870 was Hessia part of the 2ed Reich…

Here the Wiki page for the history of hessia and the transistion oft he duchies:
link

The hessian Television „Hessischer Rundfunk" made in 1976 a 6 hour movie about the Hessian people who ended up in the U.S.A. It is called „Ein Winter der ein Sommer war" and is really the best (and only) movie about the Hessian Troops in America and the battle of Trenton from the Hessian viewpoint.
A must for a collector of a Hessian Army. Unfortunately is the movie made in spoken hessian and very difficult for Germans to understand, which really makes the target group even smaller.

Try yourtupe for parts of the Movie: Der Winter de rein Sommer war.

YouTube link

Hessia is the country in Europe with the most density in chateaus, due to the fast that these small castles were all build with the income from the American revolution by Friedrich II of Hessia. The Soldiers did not get extra payment or any extra profits for their "out of area" Service.

Please find here the page for the hessians in the American revolution:
link

and please find here the contract of Friedrich II and the impact of the hessian economy and the hessian people.

link

I hope that helps….
Have fun.

Tschö ( hessian for good bye and see you later)
Ps: The hessian never considered themselves as mercenaries but as an allied intervention force.

Now this is VERY helpful! Thank you!

just added the parts on the Napolionic age.

:)

They were not, however, mercenaries in the modern sense--they hardly volunteered to fight for money.

Indeed, they usually took the oath of allegiance to the British Crown before going overseas (I read this in a memoir from a Burgoyne campaign participant).

Very interesting stuff.

This is why I love you guys.

Some Historical Maps of Germany may help.
Hessen-Kassel in 1762
Germany in 1789 & in 1803.
Hessen Kassel dissappears during the Napoleonic Wars: Germany in 1812, Hessen, Nassau, Waldeck, 1812 then reappears in 1814: Hessen, Nassau, Waldeck, 1814.

Druzhina
sites of wargaming interest

I often argue that the Hessians were the 1700's equivalent of the 1970's Cuban military.

The troops were raised trained and supported by the government of Hesse, it's just that much of that money came from Britain (a sort of ruler of Hesse). In the 1970's Cuba followed the same path with its military advisors, in brigade plus strength, littered over Africa. (Or possibly the Pakistani military at Jeddah in Saudi Arabia…)

Not strictly mercenaries at all.

Gude,

and here a goodie… only to show how small the world is.
That one is for you ancientgamer as you are from Texas.

In 1833 tried some hessians Students to start a revolt in the City of Frankfurt. After some Street fighting failed that coupe, but the revolution came in 1848…

link

The hessian students and there Leader Gustav Bunsen who fought in the Battle of Frankfurt were later released and went to the US.

They went to Ohio and volunteer for the Army of Sam Houston. The Hessians fought than from 1836 in the Frei Korps Charles Grant and under Francis Johnson at Matamoros/ Mexico.
The Hessians were wiped out by Santa Anna at San Patricio (TX) in 1836. On the cemetery of San Patricio is a Statur with the names of Hessian fighters for the Texas independence.

link

The Families and relatives of the Hessian fighters got 1860 from the State of Texas Land as a gratitude for the services gives.

Interesting…

Ttschö

<<Of course the current Pope is Catholic…..>>

It's rumoured some of his predecessors may have been, too (I'm assuming you meant to say he is German).

In order of contingent size, the six contributing statelets were:-
Hesse-Kassel
Hesse-Hanau
Braunschweig-Wolfenbuttel
Anspach-Bayreuth
Anhalt-Zerbst
Waldeck

The rulers of the first three were blood relatives of George III (the Elector of Hannover was also the ruler of Braunschweig-Luenburg); the dukes of Kassel and Hanau were uncle and nephew and detested each other (the respective courts seldom communicated directly). Hesse-Kassel troops were traditional allies of the British, having served alongside them in the WSS, WAS and SYW; Hessians had been deployed in Great Britain during the 1745-46 Jacobite Rebellion (one of the officers was Riedesel, who commanded the Braunschweig-Wolfenbuttel contingent under Burgoyne).

It would appear that the troops of the "German" Division of the French IVth Corps in Spain all came from the same Hessen area – except the 1st battalion, 2nd Dutch; and the 2nd battalion 4th Dutch!

2nd Nassau, 2 bns, brigaded with 2 battalion 4th Baden – which is in the general Hessen area.

Hesen-Darmstadt Gros und Erb Prinz regiment of 2 bns, with the Frankfurt battalion, also in the same area.

Is it true that most of Hessen-Kassel was folded into the Kingdom of Westphalia under Jerome Bonaparte in this era?

The oldest ancestor (names Hauer) in the US came over in 1743 from "Hessen." Allegedly, a deserter from the Hessen Kassel Erb Prinz regiment. My family name was Maurer until the ACW when my ancestor enlisted in a Pennsylvania Volunteer regiment. They were all Irish coal miners, and didn't want any Germans in the unit. So they changed his name to Mowry! Where I go the "e" I do not know!

GdeP

I'm only going to dip my oar lightly here Britain never had control of Hesse in any form, in fact they were indebted to Hesse-Cassel's Monarch for the hire of their Govt. sponsored mercenary Battalions a scheme introduced in the 1740's.

Hesse-Cassel was a predominantly Lutheran society and moved a good way towards being a calvanist society one in the early 18th century, hence good relations with the Ducth. Frederick II secretly converted to catholisism in 1740 and as a result was left off of the line of rulers for many years in the histories of the era.

Hesse-Darnstadt was a predominantly Catholic society and friction between the two states was evident during much of the 17th and 18th centuries. In fact one of the bloodiest confrontations (and a great source of the friction) of the 30 years war was between the southern Darnstadt and northern Cassel.

The borders of the states of Hesse Cassel and Darnstadt constantly shifted due to the German process of dividing inherited lands between all surviving male beneficiaries which steadily reduced Germany [from a single powerful kingdom] to a trivial conglomeration of petty principalities over a period of centuries. Hessen being a prime example, of course when family lines ran out the smaller principalities reverted back to their former proprietor.

Hesse-Cassel has an excellent digitized archive of it's history (and modern information) and is well worth a look.

regards
dave

any mistakes in the above are solely the fault of my aging memory, over which I no longer have control

Hesse-Cassel has an excellent digitized archive of it's history (and modern information) and is well worth a look.

Do you have a link?

Druzhina
sites of wargaming interest

Almost the only mercenaries involved with the AWI Hessians, and certainly the most blatant ones, were the petty sovereigns happy to sell their subjects into war for British silver to pay for their palaces and mistresses…

"Hessen" in German is always spelt with an "n" (though pronounced "Hezze", as in rozzer, in the local dialect). It's a plural when referring to the people – the Hessians – and a singular when indicating the state or region. The slightly truncated "Hesse" is merely the English version, possibly based on that pronunciation.

As for the OP – tracing your grandmother's origins may be feasible, ancientsgamer, starting in Ellis Island to hopefully find the date and ship of he arrival, and the port it sailed from. With Germany unified since 1871, by the eve of WWI registration of emigrants was fairly thorough. The main port of exit was Bremerhaven, the port of Bremen, which has a brand-new emigrants' museum and documentation centre:
link

They seem to be fairly fluent in English (would have to be), but I'd be happy to help with translations if you manage to track the family upcountry.

Good hunting!

<<Almost the only mercenaries involved with the AWI Hessians, and certainly the most blatant ones, were the petty sovereigns happy to sell their subjects into war for British silver to pay for their palaces and mistresses.>>

Slightly unfair.

At least two, and possibly four, of them were blood relatives of George III, whilst some of the states were too small/lacking in native resources to support any other type of viable economy. The ruler of Brunswick invested the money from his contingent and used the income to offset local taxation; I believe this process continued until the money finally ran out just before WW1.

Do you have a link?

Druzhina

I certainly do, took me a while to find again, I think it reads 'hessen state archives Marburg' (I'm sure I will be corrected) which is why I was confused.

If you have a basics of the German language you will be fine, for me it's just blundering around and a lot of "babel" help. All historical documents (including art work) can be downloaded in pdf format and it is an extensive library. I love blundering around on this site

digam.net

regards
dave

"Slightly unfair."

Oh I wasn't meaning to single out those four – their Catholic colleagues had just the same racket going with the King of France…

And their statelets seem to have survived economically (though not exactly blossomed) both before and after the golden age of hiring out.

As for offsetting tax (later), isn't that saying "Let's sell some of you off so we can tax the rest of you a little less" ?

- Sorry, not my idea of a Prince being the father of his people – or the first servant of his state, as Frederick the Great put it.

Well, in fairness they had armies that weren't being used but still had to be paid, so why not? Also, I think they filled the ranks with foreigners in many cases.

If you judge them by 18th Century standards, they weren't ogres by any means.

Not to drag this out, but I was judging them by 18thC., Enlightenment standards, or meant to anyway. And I'm not sure those "armies" had to be paid anyway – I seem to recall the Hessian units were raised, or brought up to strength (by fair means or foul) from peacetime cadres, just for the purpose of chasing rebels.

My point is, they didn't see their states' army as a tool of policy, whether in defence or offence, but purely as a cash cow. And again, I don't mean only the AWI protagonists, but all those princes in my lovely country whose lifestyle ambitions outran their holdings' productivity…

Thanks for the link dave.

Druzhina
Historical Maps of Germany

Of interest William IX (once agian I'm relying on my poor memory) of Hessen Cassel, the Landgraf at the time Napoleon stuck his gallic nose into affairs, was judged the wealthiest man in Europe.

No problem at all Druzhina, poke around and you will find an amazing amount of maps at the sight.

regards
dave