"Mantic to be distributed by Hornby" Topic

This appeared in Hornby's Regulatory News today:
A global distribution agreement with fantasy war gaming specialist Mantic Games. Hornby will distribute Mantic's "Kings of War" product range under our highly complementary Humbrol brand. In doing so we will enter the lucrative fantasy war gaming market, and provide a further vehicle for sales of our Humbrol paint ranges.

(Full statement in the Hornby PLC – Interim Management Statement/Trading Update here: link )

That should give Mantic quite a bit more high street availability in the UK at least, as most toy shops and model shops carry Hornby and their subsidiaries (Airfix, Corgi, Scalextric, Humbrol).

That's a pretty cool development. Let's just hope they do better with Kings of War than they did with Robotech.

Very nice indeed.

Wait, what? Hornby had some deal with Robotech???

Damon.

Well, congrats to Mantic!

You don't hear people outside the industry describe fantasy wargaming as "lucrative" very often.

Wait, what? Hornby had some deal with Robotech???

No, he's thinking of the old Airfix deal with Robogear. That was before Hornby bought Airfix. It was Revell that had a Robotech series of kits, back in the 1980s.

Fantasy as a high street presence ! Go Mantic.

Wonder if they will have a gaming tablee in Argos .their is room.
This is good news.

Richard has it right. I mistyped Robotech instead of robogear. I didn't realize that the Hornby acquisition took place after that. Maybe there really is hope for a Hornby/Mantic cooperation!

What is the meaning of this? What does Hornby do and how much would whatever they do influence the possibility of Mantic products reaching people not yet in wargaming?

Hornby are one of the biggest UK brands in the modelling side of the UK toy industry, making Hornby, Lima. Arnold, Rivarossi and Jouef model railways. Corgi diecasts, Scalextric slot-car racing items, Airfix model kits and toy soldiers and Humbrol paints and modelling accessories.

They have one of the best distribution networks for that sort of hobby item, so Mantic would get a presence in most toy and model shops, and possibly also in places like Argos and WH Smith that sell a small range of Hornby products.

Yes, but mantics range is not self supporting. It was why hobby craft ditched it.

This will be interesting to see, how it pans out.

Goose666 what do you mean by "not self supporting"?

It would be good to see Mantic make its way into Model Zone, which already sells Hornby train sets as well as Scalextric, Corgi and Airfix. It would give Mantic a high street presence only matched by Games Workshop.

Simple. GW sell, a supported rule system (ie, competitions, books, expantions etc/ a background world etc).

Mantic don't. They provide a very basic rule set. Unless mantic start doing a proper rule set or "aquire" a rule set that is current, that is driven by tournaments and retailers, then their range only sell on its own merits.

Those merits being.. well, they are cheaper than GW. But if you are a player who plays in GW tournaments or shops, you won't touch them as they cannot be fielded legally. (Unless its an independant tournament etc).

So, where is the USP's, the Unique Selling Point! Key fundamental business question.. why would you as a customer, go to a hornby supplied model shop to buy Mantic figures?

Hobby craft, stocked the range. It just didn't sell. It looked pretty, but there was no hobby support for it. No painting tuition, no games, no displays of painted figures etc in the stores. There were no major Mantic run competitions etc.

Mantic appeared to rush out and scream whoooooppppy!!! we found a major line dealer to sell stuff through.. and that was it. Then the major line reatiler, sat back and watched sales figures fall and fall and never really grow.

The range was slow to expand and without a support of a gaming cummunity, ie that 40K and WHFB have, or any aim at generating one, mantics sale fell flat. The result being..

Hobby craft, slashed the line. Ditched tens of thousands of box sets onto the martek super cheap at half price or less in some cases, and people/wargames stocked up.

Hence why there are loads of mantic box sets etc kicking around the second hand bring and buys etc.
So not only did mantic foul their sale opp, by being a bit too quick to jump at a major distribution deal, they also caused in net consequence the flooding of the miniatures market with cheap sales stock. That now means its pretty hard for FLGs (certainly here in UK) to flog their stocks.

This appears to be a possible repeat. Nothing seems to have changed as such with Mantics sales strategy and I cannot see any new USP's with the line.

Anyone with a solid market head, will note that a failing to generate and susptain USP's will lead to stagnatin and business collapse.

GW regularly produce/reinvent/remarket their products (as much as we hate them for it) and thus generate a continual draw in of new players and purchasers.

Mantic don't seem to be matching that..

Have a look at any other wargames figure maker out there. How many out there have major marketing distribution deals?

How many are solo ops, and or limited national or regional distribution operations?
Then ask your self the reason why??

I could of course be wrong, but on the info I have, thats my view. Unless Mantic come to the market with something new and better than GW offers, then chances are, they won't generate a major customer base, not one large enough to sustain interest by a major distributor.

Now, not knowing the people at Mantic or their plans, they may have new things up their sleeves, and I hope they do. As more competition in the gaming market is better for us, customers.

But I am yet to see it sadly. But I guess time will tell!

That was quite a stong reaction to a simple question.

I have to disagree, however, I would say Kings of War is less supported than Warhammer, but that's not the same as not supportive. And they aren't just cheaper than Games Workshop, they are hugely cheaper.

Personally, I think you are adopting too pessimistic a tone. It's as though Mantic has to become Games Workshop tomorrow or forget it entirely. Being distributed by Hornby is likely to give them more exposure on the high street, which is a step forward.

True Hobbycraft was not a success, but they have scaled back all their wargaming material and seem to be losing interest in the market altogether.

Not being able to use Mantic figures in GW shops and tournaments can't have hurt them too badly or they would never have gotten off the ground. Kings of War wasn't released until the Dwarves came out and somehow they managed to keep going.

I'm not sure how things will pan out with Hornby, but I think it's a bit much to dismiss it at this stage.

I may be indeed being pessemistic about it. But the issue is one of demand.

How are mantic going to create substantially more demand for their product?

Possibly the demand is already there and this will simply makee the miniatures more available to it. How many potential gamers are currently being put off by GW's high prices?

Not as many as you might first think. Is the answer I believe.. GW are holding up pretty well for a business rooted in the lieasure/pastimes industry area. The ecanomic downturn has hit them, but they have not had to close as many stores or seen that greater drop in trade.
Its been a drop. And yes I think their prices are now bordering on ludicrous but then hordes of teenage fanboys lash out their cash each week..

I think if Mantic wish to capitalise on it, then they need to hit the market with their own supported rule set at least. If they purely rellying upon people to buy their figures to use with other rule systems, then they wont get into the first time buyer market, where GW does so well.

Nearly every gamer I know, started out with GW.. though they have progress on elsewhere to other periods, systems etc.. they all started with GW in the main.

As I said earlier. I hope mantic pull it off. It would be good to see more rivalry for GW. But I am doudtfull, unless they have some fancy new stuff up their sleeve!

Kings of War is a very decent rules set and last time I heard about it they had plans to develop it into a big book version.
The rules themselves should not be the problem. Easier than GWs stuff, but cheesey enough to appeal to your average fantasy gamer… ^^

They provide a very basic rule set.

That still manages to provide a surprisingly WFB-like play experience. If I had one complaint it is that one army, the undead, seems to benefit from the fantasy elements of the rules far more than any other army.

Actually, I think Gsixes posted some very relevant and key points. The Evil Empire is the sole UK wargaming presence in the wider retail world. End of. Every shopping centre has an EE store, with tables, painting, gaming, buzz etc. Toy shops are struggling against the internet and the chains (ie the curse of Toys R Us). Speaking to toy shop owners, they confirm that kids come into their stores to buy the latest must have, rather than to browse. TV and kids' comics "sell" Pokemon etc to them, and that creates the playground buzz, so that is a couple of month's sales, before the next craze hits. So if one looks in a standard toy shop (as I always do on my travels), the "hobby" side is normally gathering dust. And sadly, even Hornby is struggling to make an impact on this via Airfix, which is normally very poorly stocked, even at large stores/chains.

So that leaves specialists. I was in Dark Sphere yesterday, and they have stacks of the mantic box set marked down. Are they selling? Looked like a big stack. And where is their profit in the line. Who will stock it at shows – Hornby? I struggle to think that I have ever seen them represented at a show. And to look at their range I would suggest they have no grasp of the wargames world. Dr Who and Wallace & Grommit maybe, but wargaming, sadly, no.

So I somehow doubt this will be the start of something big. far more likely that the original owners of Mantic (ex EE I believe) have struggled to make it in a very tough High Street retail environment.

Pessimism? I think reality more likely. Sorry

Just as an aside..

Mantic figures Half price.. from north star,
,
TMP link

I suspect, north start are now doing what hobby craft did, clearing stocks, as they have lost the distribution contract.

Anyhow, some bargains to be had.. if you are quick! Ends on wednesday (probably UK time, not US time..lol)

There rules are being developed over a 3 year period.

As of now you are only seeing the core or foundation rules.

When the rules are out of beta you will see a full scale game with all the bells and whistles that make a wargame a wargame.

At least that was the intentions from what I gather on their youtube channel and their forum.

I wish mantic the best, GW needs competition so does the market. competition makes everything better.

Some of Mantics miniatures are great, some are on par with GW, their zombie line is probably the only line I can say is absolutely better than GW's.

Most of their stuff is falling behind, such as their dwarves, their dwarves are too clean looking.

Marc the plastics fan:

You're writing as though Hornby has bought Mantic, but I haven't seen any suggestion of that. They're just distributing them. This is likely to see Mantic figures on sale in Model Zone and maybe the Entertainer. I would imagine that Mantic will continue to sell their own products at shows just as before.

I think this is more aimed at getting Hornby paint products into gaming stores, tham Mantic into model railway stores.

HC – agreed. But I just don't see this a a game changing moment. Sorry. Wish it was. I really truly wish the "toy" companies would take this hobby more seriously and push it back into the high street, to sit alongside the Evil Empire and give toy soldiers visibility again.

I just don't see it happening. Which is a shame.

Bachmann (who also manufactures Hornby) has been appointed distributor of W. Britain's figures in Europe.

their dwarves are too clean looking.

They are also in the same scale category as Rackham's Dwarves, thus missing the point of their name when compared to every other line out there.