"Battlefront's new 12.8cm K81 Guns" Topic

Full review: link

These guns are 'UGE! You get everything you need in the package to make a full battery of 4 guns with Command, Staff and 2 Observer teams – just right for your Flames of War German Overkill Artillery! Dirty Jon whipped these guys out pretty quick -- sticking with his table-top painting standard.

Read the rest: link

Very nice!

Very nice but why on earth would you need them on a wargames table, unless you are playing a deep breakthrough scenario? This is heavy artillery with an effective range of 24km.

Because wargamers must have big guns.

You'd be amazed how many of these we sell:

Would make a good objective for a game, knock out German long range artillery.

Some people like to have the models lined up at the table edge even if they are being used as off-table artillery. I struggle to paint up enough infantry, tanks etc without worrying about artillery, 2 fig observer stand is good for me. Nice looking unit, thanks for sharing and have fun using it

I have no idea what that thing Geoff has posted up even is….but I'm drawn by a strange desire to own one and those German guns in the OP (nice minis by the way)

As every one knows artillery is Ultima ratio regum…..

Relax, it's a modern Soviet 2S7 'Pion' (yes, that's right, it's named after a small pink flower!) with a range of about 55km.

We do have this French 155mm:

That's only got a range of about 19.5km, but that hasn't stopped wargamers buying loads of them. :-)

Yeah, I doubt Jon plans to ever really get these on the board except for a bit of a laugh. They're way too expensive for their utility!

I want one of those Soviet 2S7s. That thing looks ridiculous!

I wonder if anyone makes a 15mm Anzio Annie

Geoff wrote:

Relax, it's a modern Soviet 2S7 'Pion' (yes, that's right, it's named after a small pink flower!)

But is it any good as an anti-tank gun?

Dunno, but it would make a mess of the flowers.

It's a 203mm gun, capable of firing the following:
concrete piercing
HE
HE-Frag
HE-RAP
DPICM (submunitions) YouTube link

"The standard HE round is designated the ZOF 43 and weighs 43 kg with a total of four projectiles and charges being carried on the 2S7 for immediate use. The remainder of the ammunition load is carried by another vehicle, usually a truck. In addition to the HE projectile it is reported that other types of projectile can be fired including tactical nuclear and concrete-piercing and, possibly chemical."

Not sure about the others, but the tactical nuclear round wouldn't do a tank much good.

I don't suppose anyone makes one of those Russian things in 6mm; it would have a serious impact on the modern Chinese army that I always end up fighting:)

Nice review. Think I'll be passing on them. No need for them in any force/games I'll be playing but I'm happy to see BF making them availble to others.

But is it any good as an anti-tank gun?

In FoW terms the 12.8cm gun is not a very effective option as an AT system. Though many who don't really understand FoW may get big eyes looking at the high AT and low FP, there is a lot more to being "effective" in the AT role than having a "bigger gun."

These will not be cost effective in the AT roll in FoW for the following reasons:

1) Inability to be placed in ambush
2) Low Rate of Fire
3) No gunshields
4) Immobile
5) To big to gain concealment when "dug in."
6) "Bunker Busters" will have a much harder time hitting moving vehicles in V3..at least from what we've heard

Even if the above were not true. It still would just be 4 guns that you'd get at a HUGE cost in force points and they would be soooo easily countered by basic tactics.

The only reason to get these is that you just really like the models or need them for a specific historical scenario. They will not I expect find a place in many typical FoW games.

K81 German gun: AT 17 .
WoW!( Joe).

According to the wiki article:

With the heavy charge, and using the PzGr.43 projectile, the PaK44 was capable of penetrating just over 200 millimetres (7.9 in) of 30 degree sloped armor at 1000 meters, and 148 millimetres (5.8 in) at 2,000 metres (2,200 yd) range

Regarding 15mm railway guns- If you don't mind using HO scale, there are several possibilities. I own a generic railway gun which is made by Model Power and cost under $25. USD You can also get a precise copy of the 80cm "Dora" for about $2,700. USD
Patrick
PS- I also have a scratchbuilt O scale railway gun, based on the K5(E) "Leopold," which has been used as an objective in a skirmish game.

As you all said, I will not be fielding these unless I have a zillion points and nothing better to spend them on OR just for a laugh.

I'll probably pick them up as I like the models, but I do agree that they'll not be as useful as one would hope on the table…

Do NOT take this are poor sarcasm, I *AM* a Fow fanboi…

If you put them 3 or 4 tables over, they might work really well….

Seriously…. very beautiful, but is it even possible for those guns to NOT direct fire and still hit something on a typical FoW table top….I find the hypothetical trajectory much to be desired.

That is why FoW needs better off board artillery rules! They would be great on a barage.

I would be totally in favor for off board artillery rules in FoW. I'd even be happy if it worked similar to air support. But that ain't gonna happen anytime soon!

Just use the 'Across the Volga" rule, which is the off-table artillery rule.

Yeah that works in a pinch, but it's not really complete. If you have reluctant veteran guns they're a much better buy than fearless veteran guns- since motivation doesn't matter for a battery that can't be pinned or shot up.

Similarly, range stops mattering (unless you measure from the board edge) etc.

I'd be okay with Just having a list of price for conscript, trained, veteran guns of different calibres, and you buy observers.