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"Battle of Wyoming, 1778 - FIW or AWI rules?" Topic

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1,777 hits since 24 Jan 2012
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Captain DEwell Inactive Member24 Jan 2012 3:15 p.m. PST

When wargaming AWI scenarios with a contingent of Eastern Woodland Indians in the OOB, what are the preferred rules used? Do FIW, rather than AWI, better reflect this irregular forces aspect of battle? Any suggestion for a set of rules?

In particular, we are looking to game the Battle of Wyoming, 1778 (which apparently, is in Pennsylvania).

Thanks in advance

corporalpat Inactive Member24 Jan 2012 3:33 p.m. PST

What are the size of the forces involved? Is this to be a skirmish game? Makes a difference as to which rules to use. I've been into Black Powder lately as it covers the 18th-19th Century.

Captain DEwell Inactive Member24 Jan 2012 3:37 p.m. PST

Apparently, approximately 110 Butler's Rangers and 460 Iroquois on the British side. I look at this number and the irregular forces as skirmishers, but I am interested in other wargamers views.

(Looking to do this in 28mm, but could drop to 15mm)

vtsaogames Inactive Member24 Jan 2012 4:30 p.m. PST

Wyoming is where Wilkes Barre is now.

Might I suggest Muskets and Mohawks by Two Hour Wargames?

You will have to play with the figure scale. It is 1:1 and each unit is a squad. My crew plays each unit is a company, without any changes except ranks of officers.

epturner Supporting Member of TMP24 Jan 2012 4:34 p.m. PST

The Sword and The Flame with the OFM mods for bows.

It works. Really.


Sundance24 Jan 2012 5:13 p.m. PST

Either FIW or AWI should work.

John the OFM24 Jan 2012 5:28 p.m. PST

You beat me to it, Eric. grin

I use TSATF, straight, with the following mods:
1) Use carbine range for muskets.
2) British regulars, and top quality Continentals are rated as… wait for it… British.
3) Rate Rangers, Loyalists (Johnson's Greens), normal Continentals, etc as Egyptian.
4) Rate Indians as any of Pathan, Dervish or Zulu. This depends on how you view the Indians. I tend to dice for each tribe before the game.
5) Bow range is 15".
6) Rate the settlers as Boers.
7) If you want, give rifle shirt figures rifle range. This is not a requirement.
8) Indian figures with no ranged weapons get a +1 in the first round of melee. They also get the "javelin" bonus when charging. I like to have Indians armed as the figures depict. It is NOT a burden to the players.

The battle of Wyoming was indeed fought in Pennsylvania, in the Wyoming Valley. Some experts think it was behind St. Cecelia's Church in Exeter, in the Little League field. Maybe. The state of Wyoming was named after the Wyoming Valley in PA, probably by pioneers who got kicked out of Wilkes Barre.
Be sure that the long East table edge is the Susquehanna River. In July, it might be wadeable. However, in June if 1972, it was 40' deep for Hurricane Agnes… Historically, Col Dennison waded across the flats to escape after the battle, and surprisingly, he did so also in the first game I put on, to the delight of all.

I start the game at the point where the settlers found their flank attacked. The far "platoon" tried to refuse its flank, and the rest of the line thought they had broken, and fled. "BETRAYED!"
I give each unit the option to make a free "RUNAWAY!" move before the game starts, or to stand. To my delight, some run, some stand. That makes for a nice bloody game.

It is NOT a "fair fight". Don't try to make it one. The settlers numbered around 400, and were heavily outnumbered by the Indians, Butler's and Johnson's. I run it as a "Escape to Forty Fort" game. The battle naturally fragments, as it should, and some settlers make it back to the fort. Others do not, and get hauled to Queen Esther's Rock.
Those who make it to Forty Fort get to surrender the next day, so they can make the march to Easton through the Dismal Swamp. The game is to survive.

Proniakin Inactive Member25 Jan 2012 5:43 a.m. PST


There was a poem-short story written in the mid-late 19th century about the 'Wyoming Massacre'. It was very popular about the time the new state needed a name, and one of the Senators on the naming commitee really liked the poem.

That's what I read on how Wyoming (state) got it's name, anyway.


John the OFM25 Jan 2012 7:35 a.m. PST

That Senator must havbe been from Wilkes Barre. grin

Apparently not, And here is the poem, called "Gertrude of Wyoming".

Virginia Tory25 Jan 2012 8:56 a.m. PST

>There was a poem-short story written in the mid-late 19th >century about the 'Wyoming Massacre'. It was very popular >about the time the new state needed a name, and one of the >Senators on the naming commitee really liked the poem.

Not that it had much history in it….

epturner Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2012 9:02 a.m. PST

Does she ride away with Magua's Mounted Carabineer Light Horse?

Dirty Gerty the Wyo Ho?

Yes, John, I am having a giggle at your expense. My tithe for giving you the Good News about the Kingston Home Guard Artillery yesterday.


Captain DEwell Inactive Member25 Jan 2012 2:14 p.m. PST

Gents, thanks for the suggestions. John, I am much obliged.

Until I get a copy of the three suggested titles, due to the small numbers engaged are such battles better described as encounters and do the rules utilise the forces as skirmishers (individually based)?

The general idea is to examine the scope of gaming all the battles that featured a large proportion of Indian forces, including Sullivan's campaign, gamed as a campaign.

Cheers all,


John the OFM25 Jan 2012 2:22 p.m. PST

TSATF uses singly based figures. The figure scale is, ahem, flexible.

Thomas Mante Inactive Member25 Jan 2012 5:07 p.m. PST

You could also try 'Our Moccasins Trickled Blood' by Darryl Smith. Originally written to deal with battles in the Old North West (the 1790s). The first version published that I am aware of appeared in MWAN (issue 114 IIRC with some additions in 117) but join the Moccasins Yahoo group and there is a more recent copy plus some useful additional material hidden away in the files section:


For a similar level game but a different feel the other options I would suggest are either Ranger (FIW) by Pete Berry although his AWI set (Minuteman) might be tweaked to serve as well.

epturner Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2012 5:08 p.m. PST

Wot John said. The good part about TSATF, is that the flexibility means you could use it for Sullivan's Campaign more readily than say, British Grenadier.

Which I also like.


Thomas Mante Inactive Member29 Jan 2012 2:58 a.m. PST

It would now seem that Our Mocassins Trickled Blood are availbale from purchase from 'Wargames Vault' for a bare handful of dollars!


perfectcaptain04 Feb 2012 11:36 a.m. PST

We have a scenario for the battle of Stone Arabia (Oct. 1780) that has a lot of similarities of force sizes and types to Wyoming that might give you some ideas.

You'll find the scenario download on the right hand bar under King's Royal Regiment of New York"


Personal logo Der Alte Fritz Sponsoring Member of TMP04 Feb 2012 6:55 p.m. PST

How about Sharp Practise?

If you use a 1:10 ratio the you are looking at 11 Butlers Rangers and 48 Indians

firstvarty1979 Inactive Member06 Feb 2012 7:40 a.m. PST

I've thought about doing it using singly-based 15mm figures on 1/2" washers, 10 of them on a 2 1/2" x 1" base and using Brother Against Brother, which has some simple mods for FIW or AWI on the frontier.

You could do the entire fight 1-to-1 if you wanted or half the number of figures, as BAB has a variable scale. It actually works fine for games representing up to 1:10.

epturner Supporting Member of TMP06 Feb 2012 8:08 a.m. PST

I actually have a modified version of TSATF which incorporates elements of BvB. It's from Bill Molyneaux of the Gettysburg Area Gamers and I think it's available on their website.

I run my F&I games with those, especially at Cons, because they play quick and bloody and are very easy for someone to learn.


Winston Smith10 Oct 2018 2:45 p.m. PST

Thread necromancy time.
I ( the OFM ) have run the scenario quite a few times.
No, I don't have a set map. I just lay out mossy mats from Lemax that I renew every Christmas at Michael's craft store.
Trails run through it.

I have since reduced Rifle range to 18", and musket range to 12".

I found that rating militia as Boers gives them better shooting than Regulars. Obviously that won't do.

As for Indians. If you think they are "shooty" Indians, use Pathan tables.
If you think they like to charge, use Zulu tables.
A little of both, use Dervish.
Reduce bow range to 10".

I now give units a mixed rating. Militia now shoot as Egyptians but have Boer morale.

The last time I ran the game, I announced that all the players were Real People. That there was life after the war. And that their political careers depended upon how their behavior during the battle was perceived by their neighbors. That had a radical effect on the battle. Previously, the settlers employed the strategy of …. running away, sauve qui peut.
We now had settlers charging The Rangers and Johnson's.
And they won.

One player was wounded. When he was wounded a second time, I sadly informed him that he was killed. Mark was delighted. That meant he got a whole town named after him!

Personal logo 7th Va Cavalry Supporting Member of TMP11 Oct 2018 9:50 a.m. PST

It's also a good scenario to set up, look at, and win money!!!!

Winston Smith11 Oct 2018 2:43 p.m. PST

That's very true. It's a good game to take on the road. And set up to astound passers by.

Rallynow Supporting Member of TMP11 Oct 2018 9:10 p.m. PST

I play a battalion/regimental scale rules "Sons of Liberty' I have used Indians for Oriskany and Bennigton. The rules for Indians are scenario specific. If you want to provide your email address I would be happy to send them to you. Here are flicker links to both games.



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