Help support TMP

"Survey of WW1 destroyer models in 1:2400" Topic

30 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

In order to respect possible copyright issues, when quoting from a book or article, please quote no more than three paragraphs.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.

Back to the Naval Gaming 1898-1929 Message Board

Areas of Interest

19th Century
World War One

Featured Hobby News Article

Featured Link

Featured Showcase Article

GallopingJack Checks Out The Terrain Mat

Mal Wright Fezian goes to sea with the Terrain Mat.

Featured Workbench Article

Featured Profile Article

15mm Battlefield in a Box: Bridges

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian finds bridges to match the river sets.

Featured Book Review

Featured Movie Review

5,622 hits since 22 Jan 2012
©1994-2023 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

TMP logo


Please sign in to your membership account, or, if you are not yet a member, please sign up for your free membership account.
warren bruhn23 Jan 2012 12:07 a.m. PST

With the 100th anniversary of the start of WW1 coming up in two and a half years, I wonder how many of us will be trying to acquire and paint up the fleets of the beligerents. For those who are thinking about doing this in 1:2400 scale, some threads that discuss the available models might be useful. 1:3000 and 1:6000 are pretty easy, as those scales involve single suppliers. But the available 1:2400 scale models are scattered across the offerings of 5 or 6 or 7 different manufacturers, mostly in the USA.

Sorry that I haven't got photos. Perhaps someone else will post a photo or two.

I'm going to start with destroyers and torpedo boats, in posts separated by nationality.

warren bruhn23 Jan 2012 12:36 a.m. PST

British old destroyers and coastal torpedo boats in 1:2400:

1. Cricket class coastal torpedo boats TB1 though TB36 – the Viking Forge Italian Nembo are perfect for these. Two funnels, old fashioned forecastle rounded a little on top. Viking Forge sells these in a pack of 6 for about $6 USD US. They are small and a little bit crude, but a pack or two of these would make for a nice coastal defense scenario. The TB1 through TB36 class were assigned to local defense flotillas at British ports.

2. "A" class old DDs – no models available

3. "B" class old DDs – no models available

4. "C" class old DDs – no models available

5. "D" class old DDs – the Viking Forge Italian Nembo class also look very similar to the 8 old British D class destroyers, which were, together with the A, B, and C classes and the coastal torpedo boats, assigned to local defense flotillas at British ports.

6. "E" class old DDs – Panzerschiffe makes a nice little model that looks like the 15 out of the 35 of this class that had four funnels closely paired. Also known as the "River" class, these were also assigned to local defense flotillas at British ports. 4 E class (though not of the type with four closely paired funnels) engaged the German scouting group 1 on Dec. 16, 1914. Eight others (of the type that look like the Panzerschiffe models) were initially assigned to the Channel Fleet, and were assigned to the Scapa Flow local defense flotilla. The Panzershiffe models cost $1.50 USD US.

7. "F" class DDs – no models available, which seems a little odd given how famous the big fast destroyers of the "Tribal" class were. They were assigned to the Dover Patrol. I've looked around to try to find something similar, but haven't spotted any good substitutes yet.

8. "G" class DDs – no models available, which is too bad, because this "Beagle" class was in the Mediterranean, and a couple of them almost caught up to the Goeben. Panzershiffe "H" class are somewhat similar, but the "G" class had 3 equal sized funnels, evenly spaced, in contrast to the different sized funnels of the "H" class.

All of the above had limited range, and thus were more suitable for local defense than for longer ranged fleet work.

stenicplus23 Jan 2012 7:34 a.m. PST

British 'M' Class


Mixed bag, one lot were well cast but the other lot were out on the mould by .5mm Normally not an issue but on a 1/2400 destroyer it was an issue.

HobbyGuy23 Jan 2012 9:43 a.m. PST

Yeah I think it's going to take 3d printing to fill the gaps on those old destroyers…

warren bruhn23 Jan 2012 4:02 p.m. PST

British modern WW1 fleet destroyers in 1:2400:

1. "H" class – Panzershiffe makes a fine model of this three funnel class of 20 destroyers, and sells it for $1.50 USD per model. Another option is to use the cheaper C-in-C "K" class models, because the funnels on that model look exactly like the ones on the "H" class. The C-in-C model currently comes in a pack of 3 for $3.50 USD. The "K" class was slightly longer and had 3 x 4in guns instead of 2 x 4in guns, but the extra gun on the C-in-C model could be quickly shaved off with a razor. Then again, because early destroyers were painted black, probably nobody would even notice. These destroyers formed the 2nd Flotilla, initially with the Grand Fleet's battleships. Later most transferred to the Med.

2. "I" class – Panzershiffe "I" class for $1.50 USD each is probably the best choice for this class of 29 two funnel destroyers. Those models look like the "I" class looked during the early war. Later the bridge structure and forward funnel were raised. The GHQ TBD Ferret model, at $8.75 USD for a pack of 4, looks the way the "I" class looked later in the war after the modifications had been made. 6 out of the 29 were Australian. The GHQ models come in a four pack for $8.75 USD. The Panzerschiffe are priced at the usual $1.50 USD per model. One "I" class was assigned to the Grand Fleet flagship, two to the Harwich submarine force, the 6 Australians to the Med, and the rest were assigned to the 1st flotilla initially stationed at Harwich. Some were transferred to the Med later in the war.

3. "K" class DDs – C-in-C makes the only model of this class of 20. They are sold 3 to a pack for $3.50 USD US. This is a very nice clean sculpt, beautifully cast in soft metal with some lead content. They served in the 4th flotilla, initially with the Grand Fleet's battleships and battlecruisers.

4. "L" class DDs – the 22 destroyers in this class look just like the "M" class, so any M class model can be used. 16 of them had 3 funnels, and 6 of them had 2 funnels. The amidship 4in gun is on a "bandstand" between the 2nd and 3rd funnels. Should be easy to make the 2 funnel variants by cutting the forward funnel off of an M class model, preferably a metal one. Probably the best option for this is the C-in-C M class, which is cast in a soft metal with some lead content. These formed the 3rd flotilla initially stationed at Harwich, and the flotilla was later renumbered as the 9th flotilla. 16 were available when the war started, with the rest joining later.

5. "M" class DDs – C-in-C is probably the best choice for most of this class of about 100 destroyers because the sculpt is simple and elegant, the casting is clean, and it is the least expensive option at 3 to a pack for $3.50 USD. The few 2 funnel ships in this class (about 8 of them) can be made by cutting off the forward funnel of three. Probably the next best choice is the Panzerschiffe at $1.50 USD per model. But Viking Forge makes a very slightly larger "M/R" class model for about the same price, sold in a 4 pack for $5.95 USD. I have a pack of the Viking Forge M/R class, but prefer the M and R classes from other makers. GHQ also makes a model of the M class, with a bit more detail including some boats, sold in a 4 pack for $8.75 USD. As usual, the GHQ models are really nice, but the added detail is not really necessary on destroyers that will be painted black at the start of the war. I have about a dozen of the GHQ models, and I will probably use them as later M class painted grey so that the added detail will be more visible.

6. "M" class 4 funnel variation – the two Hawthorne-Leslie specials of the initial M class had 4 funnels. Fortunately they looked almost identical to the later Spanish Alsedo, which is sold by Panzerschiffe and listed under WW2 other, Spain, again sold for $1.50 USD per model. I bought them and like them quite a bit. I do wonder if anybody will notice the 4 funnels in a couple of years when I use them for a 1914 naval game, but it's cool to have these two M class properly represented with 4 funnels.

7. Greek "M" class – no models available that depict this class of 4 taken over from Greece. The only difference between these and regular M class is that the amidship 4in gun was on a bandstand between the 1st and 2nd funnel instead of between the 2nd and 3rd funnel. I've thought about trying to make these by cutting out the center section of the soft metal C-in-C M type and rotating it 180 degrees and gluing it back in, but I don't think I could get it right. I've also though of using the Panzerschiffe Alsedo model and snapping off the first of the 4 funnels, but that would leave a bit of a gap between the bridge and the 1st funnel. The cop out would be to just use regular M class without modification. Not sure what to do…

8. Talisman class – no models available for this very interesting class of 4 big destroyers, and, unfortunately, there is nothing quite like them.

9. "R" class – very similar to M class, but has the aft 4in gun also on a bandstand. C-in-C makes a great clean crisp R class model, sold in a 3 pack for $3.50 USD. Viking Forge M/R class at $5.95 USD for a pack of 4 could be used (model has a slightly lower bandstand for the after 4in gun), but I think the C-in-C looks better.

10. Modified "R" class – no models available – perhaps this class with two fat funnels could be made by modifying an "R" class C-in-C model.

11. "V" and "W" classes – Panzerschiffe now makes a V class model for the usual price. Don't know what the model looks like, as there is no picture on the Panzershiffe site, and I haven't bought one yet.

12. Swift destroyer leader – a fine model of this large and unusual experimental ship is available from Panzerschiffe for $1.50 USD. It looks quite interesting, with it's 3 large funnels.

13. Broke & Faulknor destroyer leaders – these are the same as the Panzerschiffe Chilean Almirante Lynch class for $1.50 USD US each, which can be found in the catalog under WW1 other. The very similar Botha and Tipperary could be represented by the same Lynch class model, but the placement of the guns would be wrong. That won't matter much if the model is painted a very dark grey, as it would be hard to see the gun positions anyway. At least the size and funnels would be right for Tipperary (sunk at Jutland by the way).

14. Lightfoot destroyer leaders – C-in-C makes really nice clean castings of this class of 7 DLs and sells them in a 3 pack for $3.50 USD.

15. Later classes of destroyer leaders – no models available in 1:2400 scale yet, unless that Panzerschiffe V class is really the V class destroyer leaders. Can't tell until I buy one…

warren bruhn23 Jan 2012 6:20 p.m. PST

German TBDs and DDs, these normally order 12 per year until the start of the war:

1. 1906 flotilla, lead boat G138 – Panzershiffe "T150" model, at $1.50 USD each, looks very similar. The only difference is that the 1906 flotilla had only one 8.8cm gun aft, and lacked the 8.8cm gun that was on the forecastle in the 1907 class. Painted black or very dark grey, no one will notice the difference. This was probably the oldest class that actually operated with the High Seas fleet at sea in the early part of the war. They formed the 2nd flotilla, and sortied with the High Seas fleet on December 16, 1914. Later the 2nd flotilla was filled up with the big destroyers of the G101 and B97 types. Not sure where the G138 types went after that, perhaps to the Baltic, or perhaps to a local patrol flotilla.

2. 1907 flotilla, lead boat V150 – Panzerschiffe makes a fine model of this TBD, distinctive because of the long gap between the forcastle and bridge, long gap between the 2 funnels, and three single torpedo tubes on the center line, for $1.50 USD. Believe it or not, these details are actually visible on the Panzerschiffe model. These boats formed the 6th flotilla at the start of the war, one of 7 flotillas mentioned by Scheer as being available to work with the High Seas fleet. The flotilla sortied with the High Seas fleet on December 16, 1914.

3. 1908 flotilla, lead boat V162 – no model that really looks like this one is available. The gap between the bridge and forecastle was almost eliminated, and some of this class during the war actually enclosed this small gap to make more berthing space. The forward torpedo tube (of 3) was repositioned aft of the bridge and forward funnel, as compared to the V150 class. Panzershiffe claims that its "T150" is useable for V162 types, but it really does not look the same because of the huge gap between the forecastle and bridge and the torpedo tube forward of the bridge. Four boats of the S165 class were sold to Turkey (replaced by other boats to keep the German flotilla at 12), and Panzerschiffe also lists the "T150" model for those four Turkish boats. But, again, the V150 type just does not look right for this class. The German boats formed the 3rd flotilla at the start of the war. But these did not sortie with the HSF on December 16, 1914. Not sure if they were in the Baltic, or were patrolling Heligoland Bight, or were held in reserve that day.

4. 1909 flotilla, lead boat G174 – no models available. Looks almost identical to the 1908 class except that there were 4 torpedo tubes instead of 3, perhaps with a couple of tubes alongside the forward funnel and bridge (not sure of the exact layout). Frankly, I'd be happy with one model of either the 1908 V162 type or the G174 type, as they will be painted black or very dark grey, and it will not matter how many torpedo tubes are on the model. At the beginning of the war these boats were starting to fill up the 8th flotilla, from what I can see on the WW1 list OOB. The 8th flotilla participated in the December 16, 1914 sortie of the HSF.

5. 1910 flotilla, lead boat V186 – Panzershiffe V1 models at $1.50 USD are an adequate representation of this class. They were similar to the 1909 boats, but the after corners of the forecastle were cut away on a diagonal so that a torpedo tube could fire nearly forward off either side of the bow. This feature did not help the sea worthiness of the boats, but was included in subsequent German destroyers and TBDs. While these boats were a little bigger than the V1 and S13 classes, with a slightly smaller gap between the bridge and forecastle, they are not different enough to warrant a different model. The Panzerschiffe V1 will do. After all, they will all be painted black anyway. The 1910 boats formed the 1st flotilla at the start of the war, and sortied with the 1st SG battlecruisers on December 16, 1914.

6. 1911 flotilla, lead boat V1 – Panzershiffe makes this model for $1.50 USD. There is no other option. There is a surprising amount of detail. The sculpt and casting are very sharp. Of course, some of that nice detail will be hard to see under a layer of black or dark grey paint. Perhaps a little lighter grey highlighting would be in order to capture the quality of this model. These boats formed the 5th flotilla at the start of the war, and sortied with the HSF on December 16, 1914. This flotilla was still around to sortie with the HSF again at Jutland.

7. 1912 flotilla, lead boat S13 – Panzershiffe V1 model works fine for this class, as they were virtually identical. These boats, the last of the German coal fired TBDs, formed the 7th flotilla at the beginning of the war, and sortied with the HSF on December 16, 1914. They were still around for Jutland too.

8. 1913 flotilla, lead boat V25 – Panzershiffe V25 is the only option, for $1.50 USD per model. Again, there is unexpected detail on this model. It justifies a little bit of highlighting over the dark paint. These boats were the first of the German oil fired TBDs. They came into service in the fall of 1914, forming the 9th flotilla in October. They sortied in company with 1st flotilla and the 1st and 2nd Scouting Groups on December 16, 1914.

9. 1914 flotilla, lead boat G37 – Panzershiffe V25 is the only option. These boats joined after the critical first six months of the war, and several were at Jutland.

10. War classes with lead boats S49, S53, & V67 – GHQ is the only choice for these, at $8.75 USD for a pack of 4. GHQ separates these into two models, the S53 and V67. While there were some slight diffences in size and details, I think the GHQ V67 is fine for all 36 boats of these classes, and I bought 9 packs of them (because I'm a nut). There were only 8 of these at Jutland, however, so collectors who want to economize on their fleets for Jutland don't really need to buy 36 of these models. As usual, detail and casting quality of the GHQ are top grade. Since some of these boats can be painted grey after mid-war, the detail is not really wasted either. The war classes seem to have been scattered among the existing flotillas, replacing older boats. See OOBs for Jutland to get the picture of how they were distributed among the flotillas.

11. War class with lead boat G85 – here is where things get interesting. There is no specific model made for this class. However, after I got a three pack of Audace II models from C-in-C (now priced at $3.50 USD for the pack), I noticed that the model looked very similar to the German G85 class. The bridge and short forecastle are joined in this class, finally no gap between them! There is a gun on a bandstand amidships. The Audace II C-in-C model has these features. While the torpedoes are not right, and while the Audace II model lacks the typical cut-away in the aft end of the forecastle to allow torpedoes to be launched forward, the general appearance is close enough to make this a viable substitute model. Under some dark grey paint, who will notice or care? I bought three more packs of the C-in-C models so that I could have the actual single Italian ship and all 11 ships of the German G85 class (because I'm a nut). But those who wish to economize might note that only G86, G87, and G88 of this class were at Jutland. So collectors could make do with only one of these C-in-C Audace II packs for their Jutland fleets.

12. G96 & V125 – no models available. G96 was similar to the G85, but with a longer forecastle. It was so successful that it became the prototype for late war TBD designs starting with the V125. However, nobody makes it…

13. B97 class – this is one of the most popular classes for 1:2400 scale manufacturers, as models for these destroyers can be obtained from C-in-C (3 pack for $3.50 USD), Viking Forge (4 pack for $5.95 USD), and GHQ (4 pack for $8.75 USD). I already had 10 of the C-in-C version in a bulk purchase from another collector, so I have not sampled the others. The C-in-C models are excellent, and they are still the cheapest option even if you want to buy 3 packs of 3 for $3.50 USD each in order to have the entire class of 8. But I'm sure the Viking Forge and GHQ models are also good. These big destroyers joined the 2nd flotilla in 1915. Six of them were present at Jutland, so I suppose a collector does not really need more than 6 of them. (But how many of us are really that sensible?)

14. G101 class – models for these 4 big destroyers, taken over while being built for Argentina, are available from Viking Forge in a 4 pack for $5.95 USD. Detail is good. Casting quality is good. Thank goodness Viking Forge offers this model as a 4 pack, which perfectly fits the number in the class. These were finished before any of the B97 class, and joined the 2nd flotilla with them, all 4 of the G101 class being present at Jutland.

15. V105 class – no models of this small class are available. They were used on the coast of Belgium. Not likely that anyone will ever make a model of these in 1:2400 scale.

16. S113 class – no models available. This huge class of destroyers armed with 5.9cm guns was never operational, hardly any being completed. No point in anybody making a model of these in 1:2400 scale.

17. old and coastal torpedo boats – no specific model is made in 1:2400 scale for the older or newer (war built) German coastal torpedo boats. These were used for local patrol, and many were converted to use as minesweepers. Perhaps the Viking Forge Italian Nembo class, at $5.95 USD for a six pack, would be useful for these, or perhaps some of the other nations' destroyers or torpedo boats could be used. Panzerschiffe has a number of different classes available, and I just haven't really looked at them with the idea of using them for German coastal torpedo boats and minesweepers. One that might be worth a look is the Panzerschiffe Austro-Hungarian T82 class torpedo boat.

Overall, I think the only gap in the lineup that really hurts is the lack of any good model for the V162 and G174 types, the 1908 and 1909 flotillas. These are important for setting up early war battles and campaigns. I really don't want to use a Panzerschiffe T150 or V1 for these. I hope somebody will produce these before 2014, so that our High Seas Fleets will be more authentic going into the 100th anniversary. GHQ may be the only hope, as that company is aggressively expanding its WW1 line. While a proper model for the G85 might be nice, and GHQ might someday do one of those, I'm satified with the substitution of the C-in-C Audace II model for now.

warren bruhn23 Jan 2012 9:09 p.m. PST

Russian Black Sea destroyers:

None available…

Russian Baltic Sea destroyers:

Gavril class – GHQ 4 to a pack for $8.75 USD. Nice models. Big late war destroyers.

Novik – no models available for this big fast one-of-a-kind destroyer. When GHQ was coming out with the one-of-a-kind armored cruiser Rurik, I thought that it was a great opportunity to put the Rurik and Novik, two unique ships, together in the same pack. GHQ could have sold a lot of those packs for the price of a battleship. Oh well, GHQ missed the boat on that one.

Emir Bukarski class – no models available for this class of 8 older destroyers. Although Panzershiffe has a few Russian WW1 ships, that company has not been aggressively expanding its line. So I don't have any hope of seeing the older Russian destroyers produced by Panzerschiffe. I'm thinking that GHQ is the only company aggressively expanding its WW1 line of ships recently, so I have a faint hope that GHQ might shift its focus to producing destroyers, including older destroyers. GHQ's usual 4 pack would be great for the Russian destroyers. But that is truly a faint hope. If GHQ does not produce older Russian destroyers, then I'm thinking that I will buy some Panzershiffe British "H" class to substitute for the Russian Emir Bukarski class. There were three funnels, and the overall shape of the destroyer is similar enough.

Amuretz, Gaidamak, and Kondraktenko classes – no models available, but thinking of substituting Panzerschiffe British "I" class for these 3 classes of 4 destroyers each, in spite of the fact that the 2 funnels in each of these 3 classes was spaced differently. In size and general shape, the "I" class may be close enough. Again GHQ's four pack system for smaller destroyers would be great for these old Russian destroyers, but I'm not sure how long I want to wait for GHQ to turn it's attention to covering all of the world's WW1 destroyers.

Will have to check and see if any other models would work as substitutes for the Russian Black Sea destroyers.

warren bruhn23 Jan 2012 9:26 p.m. PST

Austro-Hungarian destroyers and torpedo boats:

1. Huszar class + Warasdiner – Panzershiffe Huszar class is the only choice, for $1.50 USD each. As Panzerschiffe notes, there were 12 of the Huszar class, but the one-of-a-kind Warasdiner was very similar in appearance. So buy 13 of these TBDs.

2. Tatra class – Panzerschiffe Tatra class is the only choice, for $1.50 USD each. The first real Austro-Hungarian destroyers. Panzershiffe notes that there were 10 ships in the class, but there were never more than 8 in service because 2 of the original 6 were sunk before the next 4 were built. 2 of the second set took the names of the 2 destroyers that had been sunk. So just buy 8 of these.

3. T82 class torpedo boats – Panzerschiffe is the only source for this class of 16 torpedo boats, at $1.50 USD each. But the following small class of T98, T99, and T100 looked so similar that the difference isn't worth noting at 1:2400 scale. Feel free to buy 19 of these and label them T82 through T100. Given the small number of real destroyers in the Austro-Hungarian navy, small torpedo boats had to be used to escort battleships.

warren bruhn23 Jan 2012 9:57 p.m. PST

Italian destroyers:

1. Nembo (reconstructed) & Soldati classes – no suitable models available. Viking Forge does produce a pre-dreadnought version of Nembo, which then had two funnels. But prior to WW1 the Nembo class was reconstucted to have three evenly spaced funnels of equal size, coming out looking very similar to the newer Soldati classes (more than one class of these). The 16 old destroyers of these Nembo and Soldati classes were frontline destroyers at the start of the war. Would be fantastic if GHQ would produce these in packs of 4, but what are the odds of that happening? The Viking Forge model is not really suitable for conversion because it is a bit of thin brittle white metal, not easy to work with. If I decide to make some of these Soldati and Nembo types, I'll probably have to scratch build them out of balsa wood.

2. Indomito through La Masa classes – C-in-C makes a nice clean little model of the La Masa class, pack of 3 for $3.50 USD. The general size, shape of forecastle and bridge, and funnel shape and spacing is so similar in all of the classes of modern WW1 destroyers from Indomito to the end of the war that these La Masa class models can be used for almost all of them. Never mind the specifics of guns or torpedo tubes. At 1:2400 scale one just needs the right shape and look of the funnels to get by with a substitute destroyer model, at least in my opinion. I'm not sure if the 2 ships in the original Audace group had 2 funnels instead of 3. But if that is true, the 2 funnel version could probably be made by cutting off the thin forward funnel.

3. Audace II – C-in-C has a nice model of this one-of-a-kind destroyer that was purchased from Japan and was given the name of an earlier destroyer that had been sunk. C-in-C sells it in a pack of 3 for $3.50 USD. What do you do with the extras? My idea was to use them as German G85 class destroyers, which have a very similar shape.

4. Poerio class destroyer leaders – Panzerschiffe makes this class of 3 for $1.50 USD each.

5. Mirabello class destroyer leaders – Panzerschiffe makes this class of 3 for $1.50 USD each.

6. Aquila class destroyer leaders – Panzershiffe makes this class of 4 for $1.50 USD each.

This is all anybody needs for the larger Italian torpedo boats, destroyers, and destroyer leaders. However, some of the many small torpedo craft like the PN class and MAS boats might be nice. Will have to figure out how to make a few of those.

warren bruhn23 Jan 2012 10:45 p.m. PST

Japanese destroyers:

1. Momo class – Viking Forge offers this class in a pack of 4 for $5.95 USD. That's pretty convenient, because the 4 destroyers of this class served in the Med and Adriatic with the British, Australians, French, and Italians in the Japanese 15th destroyer division. This model is OK and is the only one available for this class. The brittle white metal that Viking Forge uses is a bit of a disadvantage on this model because the thin funnels have to be bent straight very carefully. At one point I was considering using this model as a substitute for the German G85 class, until I figured out that the C-in-C Audace II model made a better substitute for the G85. Anyway, I think anybody thinking of playing a late war Med/Adriatic scenario ought to buy this pack of 4 Momo class.

2. Arare class torpedo boats – Panzerschiffe makes these for $1.50 USD each. None of these were used in Europe. Might be useful for a battle against von Spee. There were 32 in the class.

3. Amatsukaze class destroyers – Panzershiffe makes these for $1.50 USD each. These were completed in 1917, so would be available for a late war hypothetical battle somewhere.

4. Kaba class – no specific models available. 8 of this class were deployed to the Med in 1917/1918 in the 10th and 11th destroyer divisions, along with the 4 Momo class. The Kaba class destroyers look very similar to the British K and H classes, in terms of the shape of the bow, bridge, and funnels (3 of different sizes and heights, with the tallest forward, and the widest in the middle). Since I have some extra C-in-C K class models, I think I'll use a few for this class of Japanese destroyers. They can be used in a scenario set at the Otrano mine barrage alongside the 6 Australian "I" class.

warren bruhn23 Jan 2012 11:44 p.m. PST

United States of America destroyers and patrol craft:

Viking Forge offers the Ward (2nd class of flush deckers end of war or post war, actually the Wickes class), Allen (last class before the 1st class of flush deckers, actually the Sampson class), and Paul Jones (actually the Clemson class, 3rd class of flush deckers, post war) in packs of 4 models for $5.95 USD per pack. The one photo on the Viking Forge website of the Paul Jones looks OK. I don't have any of these yet because I haven't decided to collect the WW1 US Navy. These might be good for hypothetical 1920s actions, but only the Allen (Sampson) class is likely to be useful for WW1, as hardly any flush deckers made it to European waters before the war ended.

Viking Forge also offers a class of Eagle boats, pack of 6 for $5.95 USD.

Panzershiffe offers a Cassin & Tucker (& O'Brien & Sampson) classes model for $1.50 USD each. This looks fairly good. Panzershiffe also offers a Smith and Paulding classes model. But this model, at least as pictured in the photo on the Panzershiffe site, does not look like Smith or Paulding, as the photo indicates 4 funnels spead out at wide intervals along the length of the hull. USN destroyers mostly had 4 closely spaced funnels, with some having 3, the middle funnel being bigger than the other two. A few of the Panzershiffe Cassin class would actually work better for the Smith and Paulding classes.

GHQ has jumped into the game with a Cassin class model as well. As usual, it is loaded with detail and hits the highest price point at $8.75 USD for a pack of 4.

warren bruhn23 Jan 2012 11:59 p.m. PST

French destroyers:

Neither C-in-C, nor Viking Forge offer WW1 French ships. Perhaps Molniya, which has a growing line of pre-dreadnoughts, will get into the WW1 game. But until it does the only offerings are GHQ Bouclier at $8.75 USD for a pack of 3 (not sure why there are 3 in the pack instead of the 4 used for all other GHQ WW1 destroyers), and the Panzerschiffe Commandante Bory (same class as Bouclier), at the usual $1.50 USD per model. If the much more highly detailed GHQ Bouclier is really only 3 per pack, that would make the GHQ model almost twice the price of the Panzerschiffe model. Not sure I see the point of that. Perhaps GHQ is about to price itself out of the 1:2400 scale WW1 destroyer market, at least in the case of the French destroyers.

The French did have some older classes. I haven't been shopping for French, so I haven't really estimated whether some other nation's 4 stack torpedo boats would substitute for some of the earlier French ships. Potential models would be Panzerschiffe Austrian Huszar class, Japanese Arare class, or Chinese Luang Tuan class.

goragrad24 Jan 2012 12:44 a.m. PST


warren bruhn26 Jan 2012 4:43 p.m. PST

Hmm, too late to edit the above posts, so I'll put in a couple of corrections here:

Corrections re German B97 class: The price of the C-in-C (called B110 in their list) is now $4.00 USD for a pack of 3. But I should note that C-in-C has volume discounts which can substantially reduce the price of an order. Also, I was wrong about this destroyer being available from Viking Forge. It's not.

Correction re Italian Soldati and reconstructed Nembo classes: The 3 funnels are of equal size, but there is a slightly wider gap between the 2nd & 3rd funnel than the one between the 1st & 2nd funnel.

HobbyGuy27 Jan 2012 11:53 a.m. PST

Wow was not following this thread but this is yet another excellent review. This really helps those new to the era.

warren bruhn31 Jan 2012 6:24 p.m. PST

Have been looking at Jane's 1914 and the available torpedo boats and destroyers in Panzerschiffe's line, both the WW1 and Russo-Japanese part of the catalog. I noticed that there were some small French destoyers that had 4 funnels and no forecastle. These seemed similar to the Russian Remy class (in RJW line), the Japanese Arare class (in WW1), Chinese Luang Tuan (in WW1), and AH Hussar class (in WW1). I also noticed that the Russian Black Sea Fleet had some classes of old torpedo boats that had 4 funnels and almost no forecastle. They also looked similar to some of these.

Another thing I noticed was that there were some old French and old Russian Black Sea destroyers or torpedo boats that had two closely spaced pairs of funnels, much like the Panzerschiffe model of the British "E" class.

So it seems that the Panzerschiffe line offers some potential close substitutes for several old French and Russian 4 funnel small destroyers and torpedo boats. Maybe balanced French and Russian Black Sea task forces could be built in 1/2400 scale using these potential substitutes.

warren bruhn31 Jan 2012 6:29 p.m. PST

Having written all this stuff, I'm curious how many people on this forum are actually collecting WW1 destroyers and torpedo boats in this scale.

HobbyGuy22 Dec 2013 12:28 a.m. PST

Well… been a long time, but this has helped me very, very much indeed.

warren bruhn01 Jun 2014 5:35 p.m. PST

GHQ is really upping their game, adding destroyers for the USA and France, and adding a torpedo boat for the Austro-Hungarian navy. The models look really good too! Unfortunately the newer packs only contain 3 models instead of the previous 4. I'm unhappy about that, as it's driving the cost up to nearly $3 USD US per model, and some of the classes yet to be modeled would be better in packs of 4.

Alan Lauder09 Aug 2014 5:36 a.m. PST

Another great review Warren, I agree with QC, this amount of research is worth paying for! Appreciate it.

PVT64122 Aug 2014 10:40 a.m. PST

What manufacturer is WTJ?

M C MonkeyDew02 Nov 2014 8:59 a.m. PST

Excellent and very helpful summary.

I just want to add that the Panzerschiffe Pilo Italian destroyers listed under WWII participated in the first war and can be used as is…and as a sub for most WWI Italain DD's. Three funnels, middle funnel thicker, etc.


warren bruhn09 Aug 2015 4:06 p.m. PST

Queen Catherine already mentioned last year that WTJ added a lot of destroyers and torpedo boats to the new WW1 line of rapid prototype 3d printed plastic models. But I want to give this old thread a bump since I just did so with the other four threads re 1:2400 scale WW1 ship models.

That WTJ explosion really is the biggest bump in availability of these types in the last 3.5 years since I started this thread. The many British M, L, and Talisman types really are fantastic, saving me a lot of cutting and modifying that I would have had to do on old metal models. The German V162, G85, and G96/V125 types plug other holes in the availability of TBD types.

I had mentioned years ago that there weren't models of the old British "oily wad" destroyers of the A, B, C, and D classes. Well, now there are thanks to WTJ. Just look under pre-dreadnought destroyers and torpedo boats. I bought something like 14 of these types, so now I can make a small coastal defense flotilla to engage those raiding WW1 German battlecruisers. Takes a bit of hunting through the descriptions, but the options are there. Here's one:

By the way, I bought 4 of the Panzerschiffe British V type destroyers with my last order. Fair enough little models. No image is available yet on the Panzerschiffe website.

Still very unhappy that GHQ is selling the Austro-Hungarian Tatra & Huszar and the French Bouclier in packs of 3 for $10.50 USD. That's $3.50 USD per little models that are overloaded with detail for what they are. Ugh! Might as well buy the Panzerschiffe models of those classes for $2.00 USD each instead.

Hmm, what was that price?! Just noticed that Panzerschiffe raised prices on destroyers and TBDs from $1.50 USD to $2.00 USD. Oh well, still a bargain for perfectly fine little wargame pieces that will mostly be painted black for WW1. Ironically, this little Panzerschiffe price bump, though probably long overdue, makes the WTJ DD & TBD models at $2.25 USD for 1:2400 scale look very affordable too.

warren bruhn30 Aug 2015 3:38 p.m. PST

I finally scrubbed my first WTJ destroyers in soapy water, using a soft toothbrush, 16 of the German V162 class (12 for the German ones and 4 for the Ottoman navy). As these turned clear, I noticed how hard they were to see, as they were the same clear color as the water and the clear cup I was rinsing them in. So I decided to write a fictional comment about being careful not to pour the little clear models down the drain. But after pouring out the soapy water and rinse water, while lining up the nearly invisible models on a white paper towel to dry, I noticed that there were only 15 models instead of 16!

This wasn't too big a deal, as one of this class was sunk before WW1 anyway. But I went searching the floor, counter and sink for the tiny clear model, and found the ghostly little shape in the bottom of a bowl of water and leftover pancake mix that my housemate had left in the sink. Whew! So much for the story being fictional.

A little later, as I was painting some Panzerschiffe German TBDs, I heard a rattle as a gust of wind coming in the kitchen window flipped the paper towel and scattered the little WTJ models. After all, those things are lighter than a feather. Fortunately found them all. I'd better glue them onto bases today before I find some other way to lose the little things!

oldjarhead109 Jun 2017 2:22 p.m. PST

A quick update to the original post. Tumbling Dice have HMS Arab a B class DD, and HMS Brazen a C class DD.

Panfilov Supporting Member of TMP15 Jun 2017 9:52 a.m. PST

Update on Tumbling Dice (Beat out by six days by the Marines…), in addition to the Brazen (C Class) (ABB 28), and Arab (B Class) (ABB 29), they offer a "River" (E Class) (ABB 30);

These are all going to be "as Built" 1905-07 appearance.

FWIW, down in the "Victorian" Range are a couple of the old "Torpedo Gunboats"

I have been waiting 35 years for the various L/M class funnel variants offered by WTJ.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.