"Officer or Enlisted?" Topic

In our games we are all officers, as we control the actions of our miniatures.

In real life would be rather be an officer or an enlisted solider.

That depends on whether I'm a Command Sgt. Major or a 2nd Lieutenant, I imagine. ;)

Shawn.

There are more factors that just pay!

What if by your decisions you would be responsible for the death for your men. Or even higher up, you have to make a decision to "sacrifice an entire unit" of men?

Could you as a commander order your men out of the trenches to attack a fortified position knowing that most will not return?

EDIT: BTW Cpt Jake had posted the Pay Scale, but now it's deleted.

Could you as a commander order your men out of the trenches to attack a fortified position knowing that most will not return?

Yes. Even non-coms can be faced with such difficulties.

I hated my service as a non-commisioned conscript sergeant in the Greek Army. The enlisted men (in reality your peers) see you as the guy who should make their life easier and hate you if you do not. The officers see you as the guy who is responsible for anything and berate and run you down like a dog. It felt like being between a frying pan and a hard place. Hatedd the whole thing.

That said I really did not see any officers that really liked their job. They had to put up with surly overworked conscripts, with weird superiors and with jealous peers. I remeber that I really felt uncomfartable when I saw my CO (a Captain) who was 45 years old have to stand at attention and get berated by my 50 year old colonel. It just felt wrong to treat a married man, with children like that.

So nope, Not officer ,not NCO. Enlisted man it is. Problem is that due to my past service and my education if I ever get drafted for war in greece or by the US I will be a NCO in one 100%, and probably NCO at the otehr as well. Bummer

If I were a company grade officer, great. Above that, not so much. Too much bleep, not enough fun.

I've been both.

Somethings look better from the O-club

Officer.

As a retired NCO from 1982 to 2002 I worked with some great officers. We lead they comanded. It was a partnership something special in SF we were a team everyone pulled his share. Nothing was off limits and we often went by first names.

I was offered a warrant officer postion but it would mean leaving the unit. I stayed out of love for the team.

VR
James Mattes

It depends on what you want to do as a soldier. I think you can find your life much easier being an officer but that's not what everyone is looking for when they join the Army.

Cincinnatus is partly right. It DOES depend on what you want. I would argue life is not easier for ossifers, it is different, but not easier.

If you want to spend your time with troops and in leadership positions at the tactical level, enlisted is the way to go (and there were times as a staff fag I wished I had gone that route). If you want to actually command you need to be commissioned. Enlisted, because of your MOS, you have a better idea of what jobs you will have. As an officer, you are more likely to get into some weird jobs that have nothing to do with your branch.

Bottom line is you need to do your homework and figure out what YOU want to do and then pick the best path to get there.

I was an officer and so was my brother. My 6 uncles who served in WW2 were all enlisted as were my father and father-in-law who served in Korea.

The difference may be viewed as the level of responsibility that an individual is willing to assume. Some want less and some want more. So I will stick with being an officer in real life.

Another related question would be what branch of the service would you want to be or your MOS duties.

Rudy Nelson 03 Jan 2012 2:11 p.m. PST wrote:
…Another related question would be what branch of the service would you want to be or your MOS duties.

Rudy I would not change a second of it. It was a great ride. SF took me places I would never have been.
VR
James Mattes

No better deal in the US Army than as a Sergeant, either Staff for First Class with a good SF team and a mission.

Real life? I was a junior officer in Viet Nam era SAC (REMF)--worked for an LC who was the worst (read psychotic bastich) boss I ever had (and that includes the dean I had as faculty for two years but never met). Even junior officers have marginally more control over their lives. In spite of everything, I'd go officer again--even with the 3AM drunken, screeching phone calls from my CO.

Why choose just one?

The Two best jobs I've ever had in life were 1. being a Scout Section NCO and track commander in an armored cavalry troop and 2. commanding an M1 Abrams tank company.

I loved being an Army NCO and I love being an Air Force Officer.

I was an armor NCO. 18 1/2 years and I was still in a tank. As an officer, I would have been driving a desk. Of course, then my career probably could have went longer. I was medically retired with bad knees.

Mid level NCO (E4-E5).

I too have been both, having been Commissioned from the ranks. The standing joke amongst all the ex Warrant Officers and Chiefs in my platoon at the Naval Academy, as we were getting the run around from Senior Midshipmen who had been in the Navy all of 6 months was 'Do you know who I USED to be!'

I would have to say that as an Officer you experience things more deeply, you have to perform and act as if you are totally on top of things, totally serenely confident at all times, 'cos nothing drops the rods on morale more than a worried Officer!

This in turn means that where before, as a Chief, you thought you were a perfectionist, once you know you will be the one everyone will look to, you really have to be one, do your preps and admin absolutely 100%, which means you really do get to see the whole picture, experience the whole operation…

So yes, Officer every time.

Although the Senior Rates Mess is a more relaxing and tightly knit mess, I think…At least nobdoy minds if you get well and truly batfaced, whereas in the Wardroom if you do it too many nights on the trot people tend to talk!

… or take you roughly from behind while insensible… ;o)

Was a Nuc and Nuke qualified submarine officer. Greatest experience in the world. My 3 COs all went on to admiral, 2 of them went to the ORS Board (delayed our inspection a month!) and one of them then commanded NATO. Still remembered for putting Port Canaveral OOS for weeks back in '73. The opportunity to accept responsibility is greater in the USN. Yes, I have taken a boat out during an emergency with no senior officer aboard, and just a short watch section. Can't do that antwhere else.

To Sparker: Go Navy, Beat Army (and to date myself) Dodo says Go Navy, Bite Army.

I am currently a LTC in Kuwait.

Raynman 04 Jan 2012 4:46 a.m. PST
I am currently a LTC in Kuwait

Thank you for your service sir.
VR
James Mattes

When I was a Sp5, a rank which I understand the Army has done away with, I worked with a small team of demolition specialists whose stock-in-trade was clearing landing zones. I don't think I've ever had more fun than hitting the ground while the bullets were still flying and getting to work with the chainsaws and satchel charges. I love the smell of C-4 in the morning.

During that time I never met my battalion commander, rarely saw my company commander or platoon leader, and was commanded in the field by a staff-sergeant or occasionally led the group myself. We were responsibly directly to the commanding officer of the infantry unit we were supporting and they usually left us alone.

I not only didn't want to be an officer, I didn't want to get promoted above E-5. I was having too much fun.

LT

Private. I have little talent as a leader and am old enough to know it.

Lentulus,
Do not discount your service. Many have been in uniform most have served.
VR
James Mattes

I spent a lot of time as an officer in both the USAF and Army. In garrison you get the perks, but in the field you make sure your troops eat, sleep, and get treated medically [if necessary] before you do.

Well said Natokina well said.
VR
James Mattes

I served in the RCN (reserve) as a seaman. If I had to do it again I would want to be an officer. Life aboard the ships was much better for them. The most fun I had was in the cadets as an NCO. This was a long time ago now.

The way players issue orders in typical wargames is more like we are switching roles among several NCOs (who have a superhumanly coherent common vision, as most groups of NCOs I have known do), rather than being officers. In most real world active combat situations, officers, good officers, don't tell their people what to do. They tell them what to get done. And then acquire what their people tell them is needed to do so.

I was an officer in combat units and in Support. \Being an officer you know a little more of what is going on and why. As an enlisted man you have a very narrow view of the situation.

I agree Rudy and my experience was similar …

Thank you for your service sir.

Do not discount your service. Many have been in uniform most have served.,

Agreed …

I have served in the military in the real life, and I did not end up being officer (neither was I interested of such an opportunity at the time).

I retired as a NCO from the US Army and being an Officer would be better but you would have to put up if the Idiot Officers above you.

But it really comes down to you and how you handle situations that come up.

I have seen NCO's and Officers that were horrible and should never have been in the Army but they were.

It would have to be officer or senior WO…Otherwise I don't get to carry a stick.
Got to have a stick.

If you're a boatswain's mate, you get to carry a marlin spike. For LPO's and above, that's a counseling tool. :)

Whoa, unholy threadomancy! 4 years dead, this thread was!

I was an enlisted yeoman (that's Navy for "admin clerk"). I carried something almost as dangerous as your medical record, I carried service records! Made for effective counseling tools even for officers.

I was an enlisted yeoman

Four people never to off:

1) Yeoman (holds your service record)
2) Corpsman (holds your medical record)
3) Disbursing Clerk (holds your pay record)
4) Master at Arms (holds your security record)

I'm sorry, sir. I'm sure it will turn up. Eventually. In the interim, I'll hook you up. We'll just redo everything from the bottom up. Start with these fifty forms…

Don't P/Off cooks either !

I think that last one goes for civilian life, too.

Pissing off the cook will make you immediately miserable (usually from obscenely spicy food).

Pissing off the admin clerk will make you miserable when you have to re-create your service record.

Pissing off the disbursing clerk will make you miserable in a couple weeks when your paycheck doesn't arrive.

Pissing off the "doc" (medic/corpsman) will make you miserable when you have to get the full boot camp shot series before you leave your present command, and get it again when you arrive at your new command.

Pissing off the Security Officer will make you miserable in a couple weeks when you re-do you clearance paperwork at your new command.

Pissing off the senior enlisted at your command means that you get all the shitty jobs, until someone new pisses off the command SMAJ or Command Master Chief.

I think that last one goes for civilian life, too.

Yeah, like don't P/Off the wait staff when out for a meal …

I choose… civilian.

Based on 7 years, 3 months, 12 days (long story) in the USAF as a medic (902x0) than an orthopedic tech (91-something) and departing as an E-6 at the 6 year mark (average than was 13 years) I can honestly say being an enlisted person who was physically on base less than 100 yards from the gate except twice in all that time (after training) in the 1970s was like a day job in civilian life. Beat being drafted as an Army medic during Vietnam.

Parted amicably with the blessing of the USAF, learned a lot about myself, and hope never to spend a day in uniform ever again.

I respect the people I served with (especially a certain PJ) for their service, skills, and guidance of a 20-something when I enlisted but never would have survived 20 years in uniform without a court martial.

I was a Corporal in the RAF. We figured we had the best of it, the junior ranks stayed at home and sent the officers off to fight.

False dikemma. Actually, in our games we are both officer and nco (at different times, depending on the rules).

Given my tabletop performances over the past 40-odd years, I'd say my not serving in uniform is possibly one of the things that has kept Britain free this long.

LOL !