"The OFM's suggestions for starting in the AWI" Topic

MY suggestions:

For research material: Anything by Don Troiani.

Figures: Perry, Fife and Drum for 28mm, Sash and Saber for 40mm

Rules: Whatever you like

Flags: Flag guy, GMB

Bob

John and Bob, thanks for the posts. I wanted to start AWI as the units have a lot of variety. I am planning to use the ne Maurice rules.

Matthew

Very nicely done piece of work, John! One of my AWI projects is with Hinchliffe figures and as you, I really like them.

Also have 25mm "Old School" (Custom Cast, Minifig, Wall, SKT, Frontier, Tradition, "S"-Range Minifigs) and 15mm (Peter Pig, Essex, Frontier, and Washington's Wars).

Also have nearly 1,000 20mm B&B Miniatures for the AWI which I am not going to use.

Thanks – Hal

Once again this gets referenced.
I must have done something right!

Great post
Thanks John

Be JAYSUS, Hal!

Does The Missus know that?

If I had that many figures I'm not going to use, I'd be flogged by Herself for that.

That being said… you wouldn't have a list handy, would you?

Eric

I've just started. I've done it in 6mm. When I've finished i will have

2 highland battalions.
2 veteran line battalions
8 regular battalions
2 grenadier battalions
2 light battalions
8 RA guns ( not sure how to orginize these)
6 light dragoon squadrons ( I know far too many but I intend to use these for a seven years war army.
6 hessian musketeer battalions
2 Hessian fusilieer battalions
4 Hessian grenadier battalions
4 hessian guns
3 native war bands
1 hessian jäger battalion.
A baggage train.

Probably will never need to field all in one go. But will have lots of options for scenarios. Gone for the OFMs suggestion and done a smattering of different facings. At this size a yellow faced regiment can pass for about 10 different regiments.

Fantastic post Fartmeister!…..I am just now delving into the world of AWI and shall follow your formula!

Do you know, between our members at our club we have a large 15mm AWI collection which we have accumulated over the last few years. But this is the best advice I've seen regarding building a collection. Well done, OFM. By the way, my Fusiliers wear bearskins!

Since this thread has been resurrected…

In a 01 Jan 2012 post, Cheriton described how to archive the thread. While that method certainly will work, there is an easier one.

Download a program called PDFill (www.pdfill.com). Once installed, it appears as a selection on the printer list. Just select the print command, select PDFill as the printer, enter a file name and folder location (or accept the default) in the "save as" box that pops up, and it will be saved as a PDF file. If the thread has multiple pages, they have to be saved as separate files but the program has a feature to merge them into one (or split a single file into multiple pages). It also has some other tools for manipulating PDF files.

PDFill will work with any program that has a print command. And best of all, while it has a paid editor add-on, the basic program is FREE!

Disclaimer: I have no financial interest in PDFill. I promote it because I find it VERY useful.

Some great advice there OFM – only one slight discrepancy. Surely the 33rd Regiment of Foot wore red facings and not white. A good Yorkshire regiment and the future 'Duke of Wellingtons'.

I was corrected on this matter earlier on this topic.

My bad.

OK, sorry about that.

I have mixed Perry and Foundry figures in the same unit and have not noticed much difference, they look fine to me as long as they are painted the same way, YMMV. Highly recommend Perry figures, especially for the Southern Campaign.

Well OFM…

I'm resurrecting the dead again and asking how many figures do you use for a regiment and what is the number of Line, LI, and Grenadiers used per regiment?

Dan

For British I paint 18 center company with 6 stands of 3, and 1 stand each of LI and grenadiers.
Hessians get 18-24 line and 6 grenadiers.
Special Loyalist and Continental regiments get drafted by the number of packs I have to buy to get them. Average size is 12-18 figure units in multiples of 3.

British and Hessian regiments have a more formal organization while with Patriots and loyalists I can always have a generic base on hunting shirt or militia added to flesh them out.
I have a nice large number of generic stands which I call my Deserter Description Corps. For example, I got a full box of Old Glory 2nd hunting shirt and just painted different color shirts with 2 Gostelowe command stands.
A bag of 30 Continental Marines became 2 battalions of Philadelphia Associators. Etc.

I am channelling the OFM here. I know how his mind works.

I hope that in TMP 4.007, we can put my advice, and others like it, in such a way as to keep this at the top.

I come late to this story but well done that man.

AWI is a wonderful period to game. I personally use 10mm for the good range of figures and ease of storage, there is a fair amount of terrain available for this scale, too.

I had the unusual delima of getting real close to running out of figures to paint (a rarity of extreme occurrence) bought black powder. Oooooh aaaaaah, had a fist full of Yankee dollars and saw Liberty or death, problem solved, mix with Perrys. No issues……a bit of an accident really, I was going to do peninsula war but found some very interesting genealogy records out of New Jersey regarding 2 family links to 1st regiment NJV loyalist line. Green faced cream/white….. Got all a-Twitter with excitement.

I should have suggested that in the third round of painting, the British should include some Loyalist units.

All assuming you are doing them in 28mm. Which you should because of the small battles and the superb figures available in that scale. If you only do one period in 28mm, then this is the one.

I really like King's Mountain for variable figures.
There is a nice selection of poses and a very wide variety of heads. This gives a nice "grubby campaign" look, particularly to the militia.

I noticed that this thread did not reference flags.
So I started a thread in the "Getting Started" board about flags.

Another set of rules worth a look is 'Land of the Free', which cover F&I War, AWI and War of 1812. It includes some excellent scenarios and plenty of good illustrations and figure photographs.

John, you indeed did do something right with your original post and list. It serves as an excellent primer in how to start and where to do. I have a fairly substantial collection myself in 28mm and as I went down your list I kept thinking to myself, "Yep" after every point. Well done as evidenced by how many guys reference it.

Any thoughts on the best skirmish rules for the AWI?

My vote – Muskets & Tomahawks by Studio Tomahawk.

Superb and elegant set of rules!

Sharp Practice by TFL is a great set of rules for AWI.

I have both of those, so that looks like a good place to start.

TacticalPainter,
We've been enjoying playing M&T lately with a slightly different action card method, which has really enhanced the gameplay for us. Instead of drawing s single card off the deck to determine the class and player side that is currently activated, we play that each side selects from a hand of three cards they hold in secret, which is then replenished after each single card is played from it. The turn sequence goes back and forth (IGOUGO) from one side to another, and whatever the phasing side plays as a card, that troop class and side activates. Note that a card played may be for the other side's troops too, as each side draws from a common, single card pile to replenish their cards from. This is the most interesting facet of the mod, in that player sides will often be playing "defense" through strategically playing the opposition's cards they possess, forcing the other side to activate units they might not wish to order. I don't know who came up with this fun sequencing modification (a friend ran across it online), but it's made M&T even more enthralling for us! (keep this in mind if you get into M&T, as something possibly to try out later once you're up to speed with the rules).

This is very helpful advice, but I do have a question, for anyone that wants to answer it. When you go this route, what battles or scenarios will you be playing with these forces? Let's say I've got my 5 unspecified British regiments, plus a converged light battalion and converged grenadier battalion. And I've got 4 regiments of continentals and 3 of militia. What battle or plausible hypothetical or "what-if" scenario can I game with those?

And once I've added in my hessians, hessian grenadiers, and jaegers, and expanded to about 8 regiments of continentals and 6 of militia, what battles am I fighting with them? Or will you just be playing hypothetical pitched battles with them? Will you end up waiting until you've added a ton more before you can play a more realistic battle or scenario?

Albino. I started with the Guilford courthouse because it has a lot of everything. Militia. Riflemen. Lee legion. Hessian. Jaegers. Cavalry. Artillery. Very colorful.
Then I will be extending for the other southern battles. Cowpens. Camden. From there I will be building for other battles.
This is a fun period to paint. Plenty of colorful units. Lots of variety.

Albino, John's system is a good one for someone who wants to build up a typical British force that would have fought in a typical action in the Middle Colonies during the 1776-1778 time period. It does a good job of this.

If you were interested in recreating specific actions I would suggest a different approach. Start by identifying the specific battles you wish to recreate. Then identify each unit that fought at most of these battles. That group of units are your Building Block #1. Then identify the units that fought at some battles which had substantially the same uniform as those which fought at different battles, so that the same figures could represent both units. That uniform group are your Building Block #2. After that you start fleshing out your armies with those unique to one battle formation.

Using this method I can do the British Army at Cowpens with four Block #1 and one Block #2 units. With 6 Block #1 and 3 Block #2 units I could fake Camden. The Hessians and Guards would require that I go beyond that to do Guilford Courthouse. Supplemental troops would also be required for Stono and Brier Creek.

Well Sylvain, it seems like Guilford Courthouse would require a LOT more regiments of militia, right? Plus some cavalry. So that's a pretty big place to start. You'd have to do what is suggested, then add a dozen more more additional regiments of militia, and some of riflemen.

So Bill N, I guess my question is, once I have these "typical forces", what would be a "typical action"?

My OP was intended for someone starting off, and wishing to get a quick start gaming the AWI. That's all.
If you want to start off gaming Brandywine, that's a long journey. Lots of regiments to paint.

If you wish to start off being able to game smaller actions, like the twin Saratoga battles, follow my plan. Remember that for the starter Hessian = Brunswick.
Or do a vignette from Brandywine. Or Monmouth. Or Princeton.

Don't jump into AWI without an idea of what you want to do. Call your fully painted regiments the CONVERGED LI or Grenadiers the columns retreating back to Boston from Concord.
Remember that the 23rd Foot can legitimately be represented by four completely different figures throughout the War. Why go through that? The motto of our club is "They are who I say they are!"
So, with my plan, you want to do … Guilford Courthouse. The blue facing regiment is The Guards. Drop the command stand with flag. Or not.
"In tonight's entertainment, the part of the Second Battalion of Guards is being played by … DeLancey's regiment."

I'm starting to get you started. Collect. Adapt. Paint. If you're doing Camden, and you find that you MUST HAVE the Volunteers of Ireland, by all means buy and paint those splendid Perry figures. Then, you have another painted Loyalist regiment, or in a pinch, another painted Crown regiment for the next game.

Remember that Continental Light Dragoons had a different uniform almost every year. Do you really have to have the 1st CLD uniform for 1778 when you have it for 1781? I think not, unless your extravagantly rich and have a painting service on call.

Collect. Paint. Play.
The more you have, the more you can do.
Just don't throw in ballistae for 6 pdr, or Parthians for the British Legion. . Unless you need them for Cowpens, and you're drunk.

John – very good advice. I'm currently on my 3rd venture into AWI, I'm basing everything on th smaller actions around Philadelphia. As of now I've done this round in 15mm OG. As of now my Continentals are two regiments of non-uniformed militia, one regiment of uniformed militia, one unit of uniformed militia Dragoons. The Brits are one battalion of Lt.Infantry, two battalions of Tory infantry, two troops of Lt. Dragoons and two troops of of Tory Dragoons. I plan to add a regiment of Continental Line and Hessen grenadiers and jäger.

I truly like the Fife and Drum figure and giving thought to picking some up (wish they had Brit dragoons in the green jackets they wore). But as I said, right now I'm doing it in 15mm.

One of my earlier AWI efforts included a lot of Hinchliffe figures. I still remember the extra joint some had in their arm.

The Green jacket Dragoons are the Loyalist British Legion. I'm sure Jim has them too at Fife and Drum.

He does – I have some as part of my Christmas present!

This is what I am aiming for:
link

It should enable me to fight a simple campaign with enough interesting units and uniforms to spice up the table. I'm not into refighting actual battles now, mainly because the best AWI games I have played have arisen from campaigns and that's the direction I intend to take.

Of course, that's only my opinion and I am unanimous in that.

That's another good inventory to shoot for.

Here's the thing about assembling AWI armies.
My approach assumes you want to assemble generic armies that can be used in multiple ways. It follows the time honored "They are who I say they are" principle.
1. When fielding British, it would be nice to have the 23rd Foot already done. But if not, grab someone with blue facings. Or green…
2. Brunswickers = Hessians.
3. Continentals with 100% uniform compliance? Surely you jest.

The other approach is to build to a specific battle. Then my approach becomes secondary. But that doesn't mean you can't use it in following stages. For instance:

Trenton had no British. But since you have three different identifiable Hesdian units, you might as well do them accurately. Two fusilier regiments, and one Grenadier regiment without lapels. Continentals should be shabby, in which case go for Eureka, Dixon "Valley Forge", Kings Mountain and then any range that doesn't make Continentals British with fewer packs.

Kings Mountain had a very small Loyalist Regular unit. The only one in red. All the rest, on both sides, were plain old militia figures. But after that, you have more militia than you will ever … What am I saying? You can do Alamance, Cowpens, etc.

To my mind, you will need good scenarios. I find that the British Grenadier scenario books are fantastic, even though I don't use those rules. Maps, orders of battle, objectives, and so on. Splendid, and many choices. Highly recommended.

Thanks for posting your original list of suggestions and updates. While I already had my forces pretty much assembled by that point, I sure would have appreciated your recommendations when starting out. Regardless of periods, this is the best tool I have ever seen to help someone get started. Good work!

Albino. You are correct. Guilford is a lot of militia. We played it yesterday and I had forgotten how much there were. :-)
To start it might be overwhelming but in the long run I have a little bit of everything

It's a thread that just celebrated its 8th birthday!
It's gratifying to see that others like it enough to reference it occasionally.

@ Albino Squirrel

You can do all of a small battle, or part of a big battle. But the most likely scenario is British on the offensive against Americans holding some kind of terrain advantage, no matter how slight, and largely being on the defensive.

there are a number of scenario books out there, but my #1 is One-Hour Wargames, which has 30 scenarios for 10-12 Units TOTAL. With that and a "famous battles of the American Revolution" book which should be easily obtainable from your library, you can take Scenario #4 or Scenario #8 which are both "attack the hill" scenarios, and probably game about half the war. There are at least 4-5 "outflanked or outmaneuvered" scenarios, which cover a significant chunk of the other half of the war. Several of the others are interesting twists on take the hill or outflanked, and a number present waterways.

90% of the war was a small battle, near a waterway hill or bridge, and the last 10% can be divided up into obvious bite-size pieces. There is no waterloo.

Thank you all for the suggestions. Saratoga does seem like it would fit in pretty well and be doable after doing the second phase of this plan, with a few extra things. That's a good one to shoot for, though in the spirit of this I wouldn't do the british in their altered Saratoga uniforms and would give them a more generic look I think.

The difficulty I was having was that, if each unit is a regiment, it seems hard to find a good battle you can start with. Most of the ones that are commonly known of are either huge with dozens of regiments on each side, or small with one or two regiments on each side, or some random companies. Or they are all militia or have a large number of cavalry or Indians or something that there isn't normally much of, making them difficult to pull off while trying to build a force that will be useful for other battles.

I guess I'll have to familiarize myself enough with some of the larger battles to figure out how to do parts of them. I will also have to try to find those British Grenadier scenario books and have a look at those. Or try to find some good generic rearguard or fighting withdrawal kind of scenarios.

This is, as others have pointed out, an excellent thread. I'm getting back into miniatures wargaming after a hiatus of 40 years. I had British, American, and Hessian armies – all Hinchliffe – when I lived in Europe, but they were all stolen. I don't have the heart to redo AWI with them, so this go around it's going to be 15mm. I have several hundred Frei Korps, Peter Pig, and Musket miniatures to start things off with, but when I retire in a year or two I'm investing in a good, fast resin printer and will augment my armies with Madox AWI prints. I've decided to use (and base my troops for) Live Free or Die rules, and if I ever get to actually play a game it will likely be with the two armies I build. No clubs in my immediate neck of the woods. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I love the ‘they are what I say they are' philosophy, so I'll be painting up the units I think of as cool, with one eye on the units listed in the LFoD scenarios.

This thread is TMP at it's best.

Another resurrection! Wonderful thread. Coming back to awi with muskets and tomahawks, so I am really looking to do Oriskany or something like. So loads of Indians, mostly British allies but a handful of Oneida for Herkimers force. Looking forward to paint them all up!

Had to come back and bump to 100 messages. I am mainly using Perry mins, might supplement with 3d printing