"The perfect American War of Independence movie?" Topic

What needs to be included and what needs to be excluded to make a perfect AWI movie?

1. The story needs to concentrate on one episode/campaign of the conflict and not wander through the years. For example, concentrate on the tumult in Boston/Battle of Bunker. Period.

2. No love interest, unless it is for King/Liberty.

3. Get the accents correct. Not all British officers were plummy toffs and not all rank and file were luvable Cockneys. Accents probably also applies to the Americans.

4. Get the battle scenes correct.

5. Get the uniforms correct.

6. Shown what a perfect Garden of Eden Colonial American was before them pesky revolutionaries spoke against their King.

Any other takers?

Make it the great siege of Gibraltar and I might go to see it.

It would be interesting to make a film from the British point of view, particularly if it were staged in the Southern Theatre where the Patriots vs Loyalists rancor was particularly strong. I could see some of the Americans being portrayed as terrorists from the British POV, for example. Maybe done as an allegory for the current NATO involvement in Afghanistan.

NOTE: I'm not trying to start a political discussion here, so let's not go in that direction.

Cover some of the feelings of the British citizens in Old Blighty as the war goes on and on and on, seemingly forever. What happens to public support for the war?

Don't forget to include Mel Gibson.

Personally I doubt the capacity of American film-makers to make a film where any of America's enemies are portrayed as anything other than the blackest villains who ever lived.

This way of seeing things just seems to be too deeply rooted in the American subconscious right now, thanks to the unfortunate events of the depressing decade that has just passed.

From your list 1 and 2 are important to me, the rest can be fudged to a greater or lesser degree. The uniforms being correct I don't really care about at all as long as I know which side is which.

As I understand it….
The British public were mostly against the war from day 1.
We had terrible trouble recruiting soldiers to fight the war except to a degree in Scotland and N America!
Like most such wars, most people in the 2 countries wanted to stay out of the war and have a nice life.
It was the extremists on both sides that made the war happen.

We were much happier 15 years later when we got to fight our favourite enemy – the French!

…Discuss?

"Personally I doubt the capacity of American film-makers to make a film where any of America's enemies are portrayed as anything other than the blackest villains who ever lived."

I have the perfect plan to get around that problem:

One of these days I'm going to write a novel or screenplay about a young Hessian who gets sentenced to the army for debt or some petty crime, and shipped off to America, and follow his adventures in the war. I'll have him gradually fall in love with America (and with a blonde German-American girl), and desert, and raise up future generations of Schmidts somewhere around Baltimore.

More problematic will be the depictions of things that Americans just aren't willing to see: the treatment of slaves, the intense violent hatred between the various Protestant sects in the New World, the paranoia and xenophobia about Catholics, and of the course the very politically-incorrect problem of Indians actually hurting people.

If I can't find a way to leave those things out of the story altogether, then my plan is for George Washington and his brave Indian sidekick Novartis* to gallop through the forest on a unicorn named "Freedom", liberating the happy slaves – all of whom were owned by the evil British (who spend the entire movie sneering), while tossing out copies of the Constitution as he goes, and the document of course glows a vibrant gold color, which causes the awed Patriots to utter: "You know, Jedediah, I was thinking of investing in some gold, myself… I have a feeling it might be worth something someday…"

Roll credits.

* Product placement. I had no choice; we needed the money to get Colin Firth for the role of Tarleton.

All else aside, if you just want a good movie to watch, I recommend Drums Along the Mohawk with Henry Fonda.

Plynkes, I should have added that this American appreciates your Back To Africa series of African figures. I think I have bookmarked all four. Very inspirational; a great resource. Thanks, Richard

What a nice thing to say. Thank you very much.

I agree with you about 'Drums Along the Mohawk.'

A southern campaign movie that showed it for the civil war it really was would be interesting, but probably too much for most America to grasp conceptually.

A lot of the interesting bits about the period are politico-philosophical in nature and would make for quite a boring movie.

However if we could get Michael Mann to direct and the Chieftans to do the soundtrack that would go a long way.

Haven't seen a good one yet.

If those who made 'John Adams' for HBO got to make David McCullough's '1776', then I think we'd get something special. However it looks like that ain't going to happen now :-(

"The Patriot" wasn't perfect?

I think one that focuses on the Southern Campaign and how it pulled families apart would be very interesting.

I agree with clibinarium. "John Adams" was great. If "1776" was done by the same people would be wonderful.

April Morning.

I haven't bothered to match it against your criteria. I just like it.

I'll triple John Adams.

Micheal Shaaras books on the AWI are very good as well, he is getting better as he goes.

<<We were much happier 15 years later when we got to fight our favourite enemy – the French!>>

Er…..1778-1783?

1775-1778 – 1 new infantry regiment (71st) raised.
1778-1783 – 35 infantry and 6 cavalry regiments raised.

The Saratoga Campaign starting with Hubberton. Ok a love interest there but she does get killed.

I can understand an Englishman wanting a AWI movie from the English prospective but you can hardly expect Hollywood to provide it for you. Would you ask Bollywood to provide you with movies glamorizing the Raj?

The Broken Chain meets most of your criteria, probably not in the way you intended. Pierce Brosnan playes Sir William Johnson, Buffy Sainte-Marie plays Molly Brant, what's not to like?

link

Rebels and Redcoats by the BBC is an excellent documentary.

Very much from the British point of view.

I enjoyed the Crossing with Kelsey Grammer as Washington.

April Morning good when Rip Torn isn't chewing the scenery.

Sweet Liberty.

April Morning and A&E did a film about Trenton a few years ago, which was quite good, Jeff Daniels as Washington IIRC. There are however so few good war movies that I don't think its the subject matter (plenty of good books) just that movies in general have moved away from this. If it doesn't happen as an HBO miniseries it won't be worth a darn.

BTW, you can throw in quite a bit of sex in anything having to do with Boston, Boston being known in those days for the quality of its women of easy virtue (see "Paul Revere's Ride"), or Peggy Shipton for any movie about Philadelphia or Arnold.

Personally I doubt the capacity of American film-makers to make a film where any of America's enemies are portrayed as anything other than the blackest villains who ever lived.

There have been a number:

The Longest Day
A Midnight Clear
Tora Tora Tora
Three Kings
The Patriot (with the exception of Tarleton who led a unit of Tories)
Saving Private Ryan
Band of Brothers

…to name a few.

American movie makers actually have a pretty good history of producing films depicting the ambivelance of war, and the enemy soldier as a human being.

Then, of course, there are the Chuck Norris and Sylvester Stalone fliks.

"Personally I doubt the capacity of American film-makers to make a film where any of America's enemies are portrayed as anything other than the blackest villains who ever lived…"

And just what have you been watching from Hollywood for the last, say, 30 years…face it, the Hollywood libs hate the British just as much as they despise American achievements, so you won't find much opportunity for them to portray the British in a favorable light in the Revolution…

db

jowady, I believe you're thinking about "The Crossing." I agree, its one of the best war movies made in a long time and is a favorite of mine. It is also proof of what a fine actor Jeff Daniels is.

the Hollywood libs hate the British

they hate them so much it's impossible for a British actor to even get a job in Hollywood

One of these days I'm going to write a novel or screenplay about a young Hessian who gets sentenced to the army for debt or some petty crime, and shipped off to America, and follow his adventures in the war. I'll have him gradually fall in love with America (and with a blonde German-American girl), and desert, and raise up future generations of Schmidts somewhere around Baltimore.

I was sure I once saw a TV series that went like that. I Googled and it turned out German TV made the series " The winter that was a summer" in 1976. I must have been 12 or something when I last saw that.

There is a DVD available in any case. Now to find out whteher it has English subtitles I suppose.

For those who read German: link

How about a screenplay of Bernard Cornwell's "Redcoat?" I read it quite a while back, but it starts from the standpoint of the Lobsterbacks and then he "sees the light." Didn't follow the Sharpe formula so would be something different.

How about remaking something similar to The Red Badge of Courage (Audy Murphy) as an AWI movie, based upon the experience of Joseph Plumb Martin (Memoir of a Revolutionary Soldier, Dover Publication,2006) around Boston and Bunker Hill?

That could be agreeable to all.

link

About the only thing i enjoyed about "The Patriot" was booing Mel Gibson and cheering on the "baddies"

The perfect AWI movie?

Based on the work of Prof. Michael Burgess.

Adaptation by Stanley Gould.

Leading man: Elliot James.

Leading lady: Faith Healy.

Directed by: Bo Hodges.

How could that go wrong?

One where the rebels lose? Siege of Quebec made by a Quebequois producer should be good to get everyone's knickers in a knot.

1. Needs to include my daughter in a major part (she is an actor)

2. Needs to include me as the "Military Liaison/Special Assistant for Historical Things"

3. Needs to include Household 6 as Special Assistant to the Daughter.

4. Needs to be directed by Peter Jackson or Steven Spielberg.

My two shillings.

Eric

THE PATRIOT is absolute dofty DRIVEL. It made the Crown forces look like the einsatzgruppen. I was like "Come and See" in the Carolinas. Absolute rubbish, (and I live in Kentucky). If I was a British citizen I would have been enraged at the one-demensional cartoonish portrayal. Absolutle Crap, buckets of it. I just spent 2-3 hours deprogramming my 11yo grandaughter after covering the AWI in school, and guess what film they watched? you guessed it, The Patriot. shamefull, inexcusable, inappropriate, undenyably irresponsible ignorance! AHHHHHHHGGGGG this really es me off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hmmmmmph
happy thoughts- happy thoughts- happy thoughts- OH LOOK, My puppy!

"If I was a British citizen I would have been enraged at the one-demensional cartoonish portrayal."

Clays Russians

I thought The Patriot utter bilge and almost sent Gibson an invoice for theft of my time. Here are some varying views of The Patriot from British newspapers at the time:

The Daily Mail (a right of centre British daily newspaper):

link

link

link

The Daily Telegraph (again right of centre)

link

The Guardian (left of centre newspaper)

link

I was an extra in John Adams and can tell you there is a lot of Rev War good footage out there that didn't make the final cut.

Tell us more!

Captain;
It sucked. It was drivel. Oh, you mean "John Adams". Good stuff mostly. I enjoyed it.

For me, the "perfect" AWI movie hasn't, and probably will never, been made.

My wife and daughter are both "in the business". They basically have both said, unless Ted Turner and Warren Buffet decide to play, and Peter Jackson directs, it ain't gonna happen.

And I'm NOT a Thread and Button counter, but I am a re-enactor who does take more than a little pride in doing my impression as well as I can.

Eric