"6lb tow vehicle Western Desert" Topic

Does anybody know what vehicle was used to tow the 6lb anti tank gun when it was first used in North Africa.

People with better knowledge will be along soon, but I thought British doctrine in the desert was to portee anti-tank guns.

Anything that was available. One of my ex-neighbours was in the rifle brigade. He knew several of the chaps involved in this action (and produced a very fine 1/35th scale diaorama of it too). At this time they were unsing jeeps (yes jeeps) to tow 6pdrs. Nice low profile, & reliable.

link

Portee was less common with the 6pdr although there were some portee mounts and the specialist monstrosity of Deacon. Portee was usually a solution to guns shaking themselves to bits while being towed.

6pdrs were generally towed, by any and everything but Universal carriers were common (as per the Airfix kit!).

When I were a lad, 6 pdrs were ALL towed by carriers, at least in 1/72 scale or 1/76 or whatever it was.

Not at all, you can't go far wrong towing a 6pdr with a carrier.

I'll have a check tonight, but I'm pretty sure that both Inf and RA Atk units were authorised 3-tonners for both the 2-pr and 6-pr atk guns in 1942. The Loyd carrier became the more usual tow for the 6-pr gun from 1943 onwards, though there are references to Universal carriers being deployed by the Normandy assault Divs.

Gary

Boo, don't confuse things with facts:)

Don't forget the Windsor Carrier! :o)

Has anyone seen a picture of a carrier or anything else towing the 6lb gun in North Africa. It seems strange that you see lots of Loyds towing 6 pounders in NWE but nothing that was use prior to this. I have seen a Porte mounted 6lb gun on a Bedford QF 3 ton truck but no pictures of any being towed despite the fact they were used from 2nd El Alamein onwards .

Right, had a look at all the relevant 1942 WEs, and they all say "Lorry, 3-ton, Portee", as the means of transporting atk guns. The RA Atk Regt ones aren't particularly helpful in that they don't refer to gun calibres, just "guns, anti-tank", but don't have any footnotes indicating alternatives vehicles. The only place that Deacons get a specific mention is the Protective Tp of an Armd Div HQ.

2NZEF tables from late 1942 into 1944 also refer to 3-ton Portees for both 2-pr and 6-pr weapons.

Jeeps may have been used to tow guns on occasion, but a few things would mitigate against it being the routine. You had to carry the firing Det (generally speaking five men), and a hundred plus rounds of amn for the gun, which would be a bit of a squeeze in a Jeep, plus the terrain encountered in North Africa would call for something a bit more beefy to shift a gun weighing over a thousand kilos.

I'm pretty sure this has come up before and someone found some pics of 2NZEF 6-prs on lorries in Italy, but I couldn't find anything on the search.

Gary

I know I'd want a pair of jeeps (one for ammo and one for the crew+gun), or better yet a 3/4ton truck, to pull one. 3ton would be better yet, but you use what you have available.

Did the British still use Dragon Carriers by 1941 and were any ever shipped to the deserts of N. Africa? What kind of carriers were used in 1941? Bren Carriers or Universal Carriers? RMD, I thought Windsor Carriers and American T-16 were late-war carriers; are you kidding or am I lost again? I guess I am suffering from Post Carrier Stress Disorder or PCSD!
Wobbly Robertson

Greetings

Dragons had been phased out I think by 1940.

In 1940-1 in North Africa there would be Scout carriers in the Motor battalions, Bren gun carriers in the infantry battalions and an increasing number of Universal Carriers in either.

Regards

Edward

Rod, I was just teasing, as everything else that ever dragged a 6pdr had been mentioned!

;o)

Dragons weren't phased out. They were all left in France!

I thought jeeps with .50 cal machine-guns were AT units in North Africa. Or did The Rat Patrol get that wrong?

There is a picture of a truck towing a six pounder on an artillery website but it doesnt allow you to enlarge it. From the rear it looks like a 30cwt CMP Chevy but I cannot be sure. Universal carriers would tow a 6lb as they did in NWE but you would still need something bigger for the munitions, a jeep sounds a bit underpowered to be anything but an emergency tow to me.

'Emergency' is defined as 'use the jeep or leave it behind.'

The military jeeps actually had really good torque and gearing, they could climb just about anything. Won't get you there quickly, but they will get you there.