"Advice needed" Topic

Let's imagine for a moment that it's early October 1713.

Let's imagine too that, in spite of the fact the temperate season is about to come to an end, a quite-quite-quite significant personality from my Imagi-Nation ( link ), who is currently staying at Schönbrunn Palace in Vienna, will be soon in the need to travelling fast to Paris --Versailles, most probably.

After some surfing on the Net, I've guessed a likely route for that personality, that one running through Munich (Bavaria), Ulm (Württemberg), Strassbourg (France) and Nancy (Lorraine), which seemed to be a quite busy, well-maintained one. It can be roughly seen at this map (yellow areas)

So that it seems I have a route. Good. However, prior to formally announcing such travelling plans at Emperor vs. Elector main blog ( emperor-elector.blogspot.com ), I'd like to ask to other EvE players first, to get some advice about logistics, events and other stuff to be taken into consideration. Here go some doubts:

- Might that personality reasonably choose riding, instead of comfortably being taken in a stagecoach? (I guess not, you get exposed to climate's caprices, not to say about physical fatigue for a so long journey)

- Quite roughly, distance between Vienna and Paris is about 1,000 km (650 miles). At a rate of no more than 6-8 mph, on a basis of 8 hours journeys, such a retinue would likely spend not less than 15 days in completing the trip. It could be reduced to only 10 days if needed, but at the price of travelling nearly like a highwayman I believe. So let's say some 15-18 days, including some longer stops for courtesy towards eventual hosts. Am I too wrong?

- Should that personality take an escort? --For sure, it's compulsive for she has already suffered an attack before, but… what size, I mean? …One complete company?

- Not less important: what early 1700s Imagi-Nations would that personality travel through? Political consequences of it? Advisable to spend some time anywhere? Contrarily, any place to be avoided?

Anyone willing to devote some scene to my personality's stay in his/her Imagi-Nation, please drop me a line at soldadets@wargames.cat. I'd be glad to share her for your own gaming or storytelling purposes --provided you took care of her as if a personality of your own she was…

Thanks in advance,
Lluís

I've always wondered why "Imaginations" include all of europe, instead of just a small city/state that can only field maybe a thousand men. It just seems to me, that a company of 80 to 100 troops per unit would lend itself more to intreage and suspence concerning the royal family, if the country itself was much smaller.

Moonhippie3, I know about no one whose ImagiNation includes all of Europe --except maybe for its own Big Boss' ambitions…

As for mine, it just covers an area less than 1/3 of Ohio; so quite a discrete Imagination, I believe. However, its characters use to be in the need of travelling from one Court to another for diplomatical reason. And the world happens to be quite laaaaarger than my tiny Principality, that's all.

Intrigue and suspense are fairly independent from the size of the Nation you are playing. It depends on your capacity to extract and elaborate plots, basically.

And it depends on the layout you're imagining, too. If you want your Imagi-Nation get involved in courtly plots, highwaymen chasing, popular riots or insurgency ambushes, all of which are to lead towards small scale tabletops, then your idea is good enough.

But if you want your Imagi-Nation be born amidst a big war such as WSS for instance, then your suggested setup would be not so valid. That simple.

As for the speed, you already did computation from the Italy -> Austria travel: the Lady has to cross the Alps again (in a fair season, fortunately). If she is backed by the Emperor and (even officiously) expected at Versailles, the would have relais de Poste with fresh horses waiting for her all along the way, so would move faster than previously.

The problem is that of the escort. Necessary indeed, the ambush at Carniola is not forgotten link but did the diplomacy of the time allowed an *uniformed* escort to cross third party territories?
Maybe, if the coming is known in advance? I know ambassadors had a military escort (don't remember the specifics now, but an unit was disbanded or disgracied because some soldiers get involved in a bloody brawl in foreign territory -Rome?). In such a case, every state crossed and France itself would provide an additional escort.
Otherwise the escort would be in the Lady's livery and not too 'obtruvisely' armed? [Though Milady de Winter's private Black Legion, seemingly, roams the 'EvE' Europe openly? :)].
Of course, the Lady in any case will be escorted by inconspicuous 'guardian angels' in civilian dress…

Hi abdul666lw,

I'm not that concerned with travelling speed as it might seem. It's only that I wouldn't like to set up an absurdity.

As you say, my main concern was about specifying a 'normal' retinue for the kind of personality --a sovereign not yet recognized by most Nations, although strongly backed by a Great Power.

I admit having no idea on how did 'real' personalities travel through foreign countries, but guess that formal diplomatic communication would be compulsory, along with detailed personnel lists and calendar. I also believe that previous agreement on such topics, as well as detailed itineraries, would be previously asked for to authorities of crossed lands.

This is why I had the most interest in knowing what Imagi-nations would by passed through. This way, I would be able to design a likely retinue. I'm quite fond of likeliness, as you know --contrary to what some might believe about an Imagi-Nationeer.

Of course, there is also an interest in generating 'gaming stuff' thanks to such event, as you can imagine… ;)

Lluís

How about travel by sea. Go to Venice and then by sea to which ever port is nearest Paris.

Ehhhm…wouldn't that be a horrible detour??

Italy lies pretty much in the way sir ;)

Could already one buy chocolates and have access to a numbered bank account(°) in Geneva?

°: on the account of Monte-Cristo (and then you get the discount of Monte-Cristo on the chocolates)

Italy lies pretty much in the way sir :)

And also Spain, for that matter…

Then, on this journey the Lady would be like the Spanish Inquisition: nobody would expect her!

If the Lady is traveling, if not officiously, at least openly (*), the status of her acquaintances would guarantee that each country she would cross would provide her with an armed escort. Not only for courtesy: even if the tragedy of Carniola was never officially announced, it is known in every European Chancellery and Court; no one wishes to have the Lady murdered on his land!

This does not prevent, of course, the constitution in Austria of an 'escort of honour' of young noblemen (I'm sure young officers would compete to be part of the Lady's escort, and that Versailles -and thus Paris, at least for them- is the final destination can only increase their motivation), and of a 'personal retinue' of male servants whom only very naive eyes would not identify as veteran soldiers in non-military clothes.

Anyway, what was missing at Carniola was an unnoticeable screen of inoncuous-looking 'guardian angels'.

___
*: an alternative could be to travel very lightly under an assumed name. Later in the century the French Secret du Roy had the 'French' candidate to the throne of Poland crossing hostile Germany as a merchant's clerk, while a look-alike tried openly -and in vain- to reach Poland by sea. But such daring move requires perfect secrecy, and leaks are to be feared at Schönbrunn. Specially if some agents of Philip V kindle the potential jealousy of the Emperor's wife. Women with a troubled heart are easily gulled to speak too much, remember the Nibelungenlied YouTube link

If "Her Unspecified Excellency" were to choose a more circuitous but less taxing maritime route, the Herzog of Lagerburg (client state to the Empire) lagerburgduchy.blogspot.com would be pleased to offer passage aboard the 12-lbr sloop-of-war SMS "Herzogen Lynnette"(20), flagship (and one third) of the Lagurburg Naval Squadron home ported in Trieste, escorted by the two 6-lbr armed schooners(12) constituting the balance of the fleet. Considering the the vessels would sail 'round the clock, with moderately favorable winds the voyage might be accomplished in 10-15 days. It would give the Herzog an excuse to sortie the fleet out of the Adriatic for a spell.

In any case the best protection against an assassin is another assassin YouTube link -or, even better, a whole team of them.
Then Lluis, you want to stay 'historical', and -a recent movie notwithstanding YouTube link– Ninjas were not part of the Western European culture by then…

Mmmmmmmm…

…so are you suggesting my personality to take passage on a ship for going from Vienna to Versailles by mid October 1713, all long the Spanish coast from Alicante to the Bay of Biscay???

OK OK, I understand you want her dead :P

A little early in the century for a decoy in the form of Chevalier d'Eon to take her place but a similar ruse may be amusing.

During the ambush at the beginning of the 'King Arthur' movie (now, THAT is an historical reference! But those knowing Soldadets' campaign know that for some reason the reference has some justification ) the man in bishop dress in the carriage is a look-alike, the bishop (in military outfit) rides in the escort.
Now I deeply doubt the Lady could masquerade as a man (the weather is still fair, no heavy cloak justified), but she could be among the ladies in waiting and female servants in a far more modest vehicle…

Will this one arrive first at Versailles?

The Lady preparing to a Combat à l'Antique training session during her sojourn at the Ecole des Sciences des Demoiselles in Monte-Cristo:

(Not a few years before the events currently mentioned. This practice was optional, but the young and energetic woman found it more relaxing than the other 'fitness maintaing' activities proposed: croquet, game of graces, minuet,…).

.

This athletic red-haired young woman in a 'Gladiatrix' ("Les gladiateurs circculent dans le sang") competition was also studying at the Ecole des Demoiselles:

Fiona Mc Dalriada ('Frivolous Fiona' in Monte-Cristo -she was young and daring) is better known under her marital name of Fiona Mc Gregor.

The two women were not in the Presipality at the same time, and met only years later in the besieged 'Defiant Principality' link.
Fiona was killed in the Carniola ambush, defending the Lady link. To honor and perpetuate her memory, the Lady re-named her 'Daughtersof Minerva' regiment after her link:

Their common weapon master in Monte-Cristo:

The missing picture:

The hair cuts don't look fashionable for the early 18th C., but the two students, for 'the fun of it' and to enjoy more liberty even through their hair, took excuse from 'historical re-enactment' to leave their hair free. And Fiona turned a little 'Punkette' in MC.
As for the weapon master… outside training drill she wore a wig, like men; actually she did a *lot* of things like men (in her time she was a disciple of Mademoiselle de Maupin link

Their common weapon master in Monte-Cristo:

===

Who's the elegant lady?? Just professional interest off course :)

Actress Tabrett Bethell as Cara Mason in the TV series 'Legend of the Seeker' link

Imho she and the other female hero Kahlan Amnell (Bridget Regan)

are the only two redeeming features of the series

YouTube link
YouTube link

Guys until the 19th century and the RR most travel was done by sea since it was the quickest and safest. A noble would certainly know this and plan accordingly. In this age Scotland and Oslo were just as close as Edinburgh and London. Water was the highway of this age.

Would imply a circumnavigation around Italy and Spain. Vienne and Versailles are far from the sea: using the Seine river from the Channel to Paris was possible but (upstream) very slow.
Besides, unless escorted by a whole fleet, the Lady cannot risk to be intercepted by a Spanish squadron.

An escort can protect the Lady against any hand-to-hand aggression or short range (pistol, grenade lobbing) attack.
But against a machine infernale (link or a wagon loaded with barrels filled with black powder and nails, or dozens of loaded musket barrels braced together &c…) the only safety is to have the Lady, modestly dressed, riding in a modest carriage with the maidservants, and a look alike in the 'noble' carriage. Yet, requires there is no leak from the start.

Btw, are you sure crossing the lower Alps to Italy, then going along the Mediterranean shore and getting to the Rhone valley through Aix en Provence would be more lengthy than your proposed 'Northern' itinerary?

Then you can have a rich caravan (with a look alike) ostensibly taking one road, another, modest, unobtrusive one taking the other road…

Good Evening,
If I may be so bold to suggest; travelling by sea, especially aboard one of the Duchy's armed schooners (designed and constructed in one of the yards of Baltimore, as indicated in my blog), the lady in question would be more than amply safe. Those who are familiar with such matters will attest that a schooner is a most agile and elusive type of vessel. Only another vessel of similar design could hope to keep up with, much less overhaul and intercept one. As noted above, passages by sea were fairly common in the day; in any vessel, the sea is sufficiently vast that finding, much less intercepting, any specific ship is not very feasible. To "Soldadets": If a voyage were undertaken along a coast, then your assertion would be valid. However, only a rank amateur (or a Spaniard) would pilot a vessel along a hostile coastline. Navigation in the day, just prior to the advent of chronometers, was much more accurate than you might think.
Up Spirits!
Albrecht Mordicus, Herzog von Lagerburg
AKA- Allen M.
CWO4, USCG (ret)

Addendum, to Soldadets- (out of character) To further illustrate my point regarding locating and engaging a vessel at sea, I cite the examples of CSS Alabama (ACW), and SMS Emden (WW1). Each vessel was able to range freely for months, capturing and sinking dozens of merchantmen, without being apprehended. This despite being pursued aggressively by squadrons of enemy warships. Conveying a Personage from port ot port while avoiding hostile contact is far easier. (Back in character)
Upon contemplation of your disparaging remarks I find your implication that an Imperial officer and member of the peerage would desire the demise of any ally profoundly offensive. If I believed your comments were other than the ill-considered response of an uninformed landlubber, I would call you out, sir. Please send my regrets to her Ladyship, and consider the offer withdrawn.
-Lagerburg-

Maybe the Lady was seasick during her outward journey ?
No, I'm sure not: know her better…

Better to avoid Venice, nowadays
link

USRCutterman, might you email to me at "soldadets [at] wargames [dot] cat" ?

Thanks! :)

The picture still missing on (disappeared from?) the 05 Dec 2011 4:58 a.m

=

and why it is (surprisingly!) relevant to a 18th C. character:
link

PS: Lluis, you should really add Lady Elisenda's beautiful personal banner in the margin of her biography!

Hi, Jean-Louis!

I have no words at the pictures you've posted --except maybe some *gasp* …she needs no sword to make me inconditionally surrender!!

Glad you like the banner so much! I admit to have come liking it too, but I'm afraid it will not long last. This is due to it's only a temporary banner, supposed to have been hurriedly manufactured by Austrian makers for her journey from Vienna to Versailles.

Therefore, it shows some heraldic contradictions, as a result of gaps produced in her status changing from Countess to sovereign Princess.

The main one, that it still shows her arms as Countess of Prades (party per saltire 1st & 4th Aragon, 2nd Cardona, 3rd Anjou; at chief, her own imaginary lineage, a Cardona secondary branch), while the shield is crowned by a princely crown --and Prades is by no means a Principality in its own! This is why her arms and banner will be calmly revised in a near future by Galatan (=ImagiNary Catalan) heraldists --and most likely appropriately changed.

As a matter of fact it is possible that, when arrived in French borders, she'll find a replacement escort with a different banner for her, as guest of Louis XIV!!