"Napoleonic Grenadier Duties" Topic

I know that the Grenadiers were often larger gents tasked with leading charges and being the "moral support" of the brigade, but what were their other duties? Is there any evidence to support the idea that they may have helped in Skirmishing duties with the light companies?

While I am no expert on Napoleonic grenadiers, I don't believe that grenadiers were well suited/trained/equipped to serve as skirmishers

The throwing grenades thing did not continue in wide use much after the Marlburian period (although there is a series of paintings in the National Army Museum, London, of "the granadiers exercise" dated 1735. After this period, although grenadiers were still chosen from among the biggest and strongest men in the regiment, there was a growing tendency to choose experienced, dependable soldiers above all else. As such, although they retained their role as the "stormtroopers" of the Napoleonic era, they were also considered capable of more individualistic action, such as acting as supports for the skirmish line (though not necessarily participating in the activity). The British – and I think also their Portuguese allies (I could be wrong on this) – certainly did this on occasion.

Across Europe, the Napoleonic wars saw a debate as to the efficacy of "converged" battalions of elite troops from the line regiments. Some nations moved away from the idea of permanent, or semi-permanet (ie for the duration of the campaign,) battalions as a part of an elite reserve held at various command levels from brigade up to army; others hung onto it throughout the period. In the French army, flank companies tended to be "converged" at regimental level, and the British did similar with their light companies at brigade level (which was the equivalent of a French 2-4 battalion regiment). The French used larger formations of detached flank companies at various points up to about 1808 (not so much after that); but these were usually drawn from the flank companies of depot or garrison units. By 1800, the British only used converged flank battalions with small independent forces – usually no more than 1 or 2 brigades – that had no obvious elite units to use as a reserve; as such, these battalions often comprised a mix of grenadiers and lights and they would have acted in concert as such. The Russians alone seemed to go for the "best of both worlds" and have both indpendent and integral grenadier units.

Another notable aspect of the grenadiers – and skirmishers – was that they tended to be kept at, if not paper strength, then certainly at a higher level than the centre companies (at their expense, obviously).

Generally, one of the "perks" of being a grenadier was the removal of day-to-day fatigue duties; however, in some armies they were also given tasks that required a level of trust or personal initiative not expected of the centre companies (eg in British service – and possibly others – they made up the cartridges for the rest of the regiment, as they were considered sufficiently reliable not to squirrel away some of the powder and sell it for drink).

Hope that helps.

Some quick thoughts,

Early French Republican armies had their entire battalion break out into mass skirmisher "clouds". This would include the grenadiers from those battalions.

French Legere regiments had "carabiniers"….same as a grenadier co. in line regiments. Carabiniers skirmished.

French Imperial line in the early imperial years broke into skirmishers on "as needed basis". So again the grenadiers were skirmishers.

So….depending on training and service time in army….if the grenadier..whom were the "veterans" of a battalion, saw skirmish action before, then why not allow these veteran and well trained soldiers to skirmish.

Oudinot's converged elites division of 1807-09. Mixture of line and legere elite co's. They could and did skirmish during the polish war of 1807 if I remember correctly.

Last note…The use of grenadiers in Germanic Hanoverian army as skirmishers is noted. During the 1793-94 Low countries actions, the 1st battalion of converged grenadiers were given specific skirmisher duty. A commander looking around for some "skirmishers" would quickly realize the benefit of using training soldiers….again the grenadiers, against the massed french skirmisher mob.

M aka WR

Oidinot's converged elites (I believe as I have no resouces at hand) were stripped from regiments left in garrison. This is exactly the same as the Russian converged grenadier battalions in 1812. Also realize that the French army was on the large battalion basis then as well. The Swedish army grenadiers were also converged from all of the line battalions, as were several of the principalities.

The Grenadier caompanies were not overly large in comparison the the fusilier units at the start of any campaign, but because they were the most experienced, suffered less strategic wastage; most formations could not handle a single company being out of line with the rest of the battalion.

If we look back to the 7YW, the French grenadiers seemed to be a rudimentary light infantry formation. Even then, the French are described as quick on the attack, somewhat unsteady in defense – using German and Swiss units as a defense "backbone." The blue-coated, bearskin wearing Grenadiers de France, and the white coated, tri-corn wearing Grenadiers Royaux were certainly not shock troops of the Prussian model.

I seem to recall Oman mentioning French grenadier companies serving with Voltigeur companies in thickening skirmish lines.

In Spain, Grenadier companies were sometimes drawn from their parent units and formed in battalions for specific thrusts. I seem to recall a couple such battalions at Albuera(?) drawn from the I Corps laying siege to Cadiz.

At Fuentes de Onoro I believe one division was single battalions from the regiments of I Corps.

GdeP

grenadiers were not necessarily tall men, at least in the French Revolution one could get promoted into grenadiers due to being an excellent soldier.

Grenadier companies were usually used to form ad hoc elite battalions, there is no reason why French grenadiers shouldn't be able to skirmish

<<f we look back to the 7YW, the French grenadiers seemed to be a rudimentary light infantry formation.>>

I believe de Broglie trained the grenadiers of his army to precede his advances, and they did so through thick forest in one of the early battles of the war (forget the name – Klosterhaven perhaps?).

Going back to the WSS (and possibly before), grenadiers were certainly more adaptable to particular circumstances; the very nature of storming a fortified position would call for the kind of dispersed action and individual initiative similar to that required of skirmishers in later conflicts. I suspect that more soldiers (ie line troops as well) than we think were able to act independently when it was necessary; it was just that the formal training and higher organisation were not put in place until later.

Faber du Faur sketched the Grenadiers a Pied of the Imperial Guard skirmishing in Russia.

Oudinot's provisional (not 'converged' please) division undoubtedly skirmished and was noted as fighting in the Wood of Sortlach at Friedland during Lannes' delaying action on 13-14 June 1807.

As a sidenote, it took more than height to be a grenadier. When new infantry units were organized, especially in 1813, Napoleon would not let them form elite companies until they had proven themselves in combat.

Coignet was a grenadier in his line regiment in 1814. He was invited to join the Imperial Guard when he qualified by service length. When interviewed by Davout, who was colonel-in-chief of the Grenadiers a Pied, he was told to put cards into his shoes as he didn't quite make the height requirement.

Sincerely,
Kevin