| ciaphas | 16 Nov 2011 8:23 a.m. PST |
Hi, was looking at adding an infantry brigade to my allied contingent, and thought of these guys, however information is limited. I undsertand that there was a recce squadron – how was this equiped?
3 motorised fighting groups, i have read companies – so how were these organised?
an artillery battery of 6 x 25pdrs don't know if it makes any difference i am using rapid fire. jon |
| NigelM | 16 Nov 2011 8:39 a.m. PST |
This is from memory as I don't have my notes with me and cant access the website I gained most of the info from at the moment! Recce Sqd had 10 x Daimler Dingo in 2 troops of 5, a carrier troop of 7 Universal Carriers, AT section of 2 x 6pdr and I think mortar section of 2 x 3" Fighting groups each had 3 x infantry platoon, 1 x MG platoon of 4 x Vickers, AT section of 2 x 6pdr & mortar section of 2 x 3" Artillery battery had 4 x 25pdr initially, rising to 6 late 1944. Will check my notes and post link later. |
| Prince Rupert of the Rhine | 16 Nov 2011 10:22 a.m. PST |
Old TMP thread here R Mark Davies is very helpful. I never did get that project of the ground Ho hum
TMP link
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| NigelM | 16 Nov 2011 11:08 a.m. PST |
That thread is a bit out of date and RMD has had some more info since then revising his BFWWII orbat accordingly PDF link I had things slighty wrong the Recce Squadron had 2 carrier troops totalling 14 carriers and did not have a mortar section
Fighting groups oficially had an AA section with 2 x 2cm but it seems these were left in the UK
Most of my info comes from here prinsesirenebrigade.nl |
| NigelM | 16 Nov 2011 11:12 a.m. PST |
Artillery organisation
Staff
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| Jemima Fawr | 17 Nov 2011 3:06 a.m. PST |
As Nigel says, I've found more information since that last post. The differences are: The Recce Squadron replaced its Humber LRCs with Dingos just before embarkation to Normandy, but someone in the Brigade kept at least one LRC – possibly the Recce Sqn HQ or the Bde HQ. The Sqn never did have armoured cars heavier than a Dingo. As Nigel says, there were ten scout cars in the scout car troop, plus four motorcycles used for liaison. I don't know what the squadron HQ consisted of. The Recce Squadron had a Carrier Troop, containing two Setions, each of 7 Carriers. This is what Nigel says, but the terminology is slightly different, which might explain the confusion. The Fighting Groups lacked Scout Platoons, so only had lorried infantry and the support platoons. The jury is out on the 20mm AA guns – there is a watercolour by a Dutch officer, of the brigade's positions near Sallenelles, showing a triple-mount 20mm AA gun. |
| NigelM | 17 Nov 2011 3:26 a.m. PST |
There is a 'light recce vehicle' listed in the HQ of the Recce Sqd but I'm not sure if it was a Humber LRC at all. There is a pic of the unit in Sept 44 which shows the back end of what looks like a Humber Scout to me, will track it down later. Mark is right with his terminology but I've broken it down to how I think it operated based on the organisation of 52 Recce Regt which also went to NWE with Dingos & Carriers (plus Valentines) Number of officers listed supports this IMHO. Black Lion decals do markings for the Brigade in 1/72 and provide a custom service so probably could do them in other scales. link link If I ever get round to painting up specific vehicles for the unit that's the route I'll take (make just try out the 1/72 ones for 15mm anyway) |
| Jemima Fawr | 17 Nov 2011 4:00 a.m. PST |
Nigel, Yes, the terminology is odd. As you say – 7 Carriers would normally a Troop, brokwn down into a Troop HQ of 1 Carrier and two Sections, each of 3 Carriers. I agree – the Bde HQ and possibly the Recce Sqn HQ almost certainly would have had Humber Scout Cars as liaison vehicles – they were ubiquitous in that role throughout 21st Army Group. Re 52 Recce: Have you got to the bottom of the Valentine Squadron question? I've not been able to find any info on whether or not it went to Europe. |
| NigelM | 17 Nov 2011 5:00 a.m. PST |
No answer on the Valentines, meant to put a question mark after it in my earlier post! Really can't see the value of them being in a Recce Regt they would get left behind by pretty much everything. |
| Jemima Fawr | 17 Nov 2011 5:38 a.m. PST |
I think the reason for them being there was that as 52 Div was the rapid-response, go-anywhere division, Valentines were light enough (but reasonably armoured, with a decent gun) to be easily shipped and carried in landing craft lighter than the LCT. |
| NigelM | 17 Nov 2011 5:54 a.m. PST |
Yes the mountain trained, airlanding division whose first action was an amphibious assault on the Netherlands. |
| Jemima Fawr | 17 Nov 2011 9:02 a.m. PST |
You can't say that they weren't flexible! :o) |
| NigelM | 17 Nov 2011 12:23 p.m. PST |
Thought I'd post the details on the other parts of the unit Signals
Transport & maintenance
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looks at a multi-period building.
