"The Jedi are unethical?" Topic

Qui-Gon Jinn Jedi Knight from "The Phantom Menace seems very unethical".

He first uses his Jedi mind tricks to get the Gaungauns to give him a vehicle to travel to Naboo.

Then he tries to get Watto to take money that is deemed worthless by using his Jedi Mind Powers.

When he is unsuccessful at that he uses his mind powers to cheat at a Chance Cube game with Watto.

He also gambled with a ship he did not own, what if he had lost?

Then at the end of the movie, with everyone happy and Naboo is saved, why doesn't Obi-Wan go back for Anakin's mother?
I am sure the people of Naboo would not mind taking a little bit of money to purchase a slave for the people who just saved their planet.
After all this "slave" gave birth to a child, born of "the Force" she might be important.

Yes.
Pure and simple.
"You don't want to sell me deathsticks. You need to go home and re-think your life."
Nice.

For god sake dont look for loop holes in the new star wars films. You will find a Black hole there. They looked good films. If you turn off the sound they are great. Seen any other way they are a pile of poo.

And I've seen heads of cabbage with more brains then the Jedi too.

Why do you think the Jedi were wiped out?

Have you been watching the red letter media reviews?

The whole institution of slavery didn't seem to bother them either.
And for Big Time Operators, they seem very easy to dupe.Which may have little to do with ethics but a lot to do with applicable intelligence.

@leidang, the Red Letter Media reviews are the BEST! Not only are they on target from a film critique stand point, they are gut-busting funny (aside from the disturbing asides he throws in). Here's part one of the Phantom Menace review:

YouTube link

Red Letter is all you need to know.

Brave Rebels Versus An Evil Empire, or Incompetent Psychic Inquisitors Leading Slave Soldiers.

Hmm…yeah, I'll take Eps 4-6.

I think you are confusing morals with ethics and over simplifying both.

Try reading this: link

And: link

Let me save you some time. Ethics refers to an individual's character and morals refer to societal customs. Ethics is what an individual finds right and wrong. Morals is what the society in which the individual lives is deemed right nad wrong.

Therefore, the Jedi may not seem ethical or moral to us. However, they may be completely consistant within their own individual ethical standards and cultural morality.

The Star Wars saga is a morality tale. The lesson is the corruption of a society who takes small steps toward losing their freedom by accepting that they need to compromise their values to defend themselves.

Eps 4-6 were about good triumphing over evil in 1-3 those lines are much more blurred.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb"

- Dark Helmet (Lucas must have wanted to prove him right and made the prequals…)

I like the Red Letter Media reviews but wish they would stay on topic.

I think we talked about this on my poll thread on Vader vs Luke. Anyway don't forget that the Jedi Order tried to destroy the Republic and Kill the President. Plus they lost that always makes them the bad guys. WWII anyone?

VR
James Mattes

This is why they were blinded in the Force and didn't see the Sith coming. Jedi should have been able to detect that disturbance from a long ways out. Instead Sidious was about to completely blindside them as they had lost their way. Moral is don't use a conveniently created slave race as cannon fodder just cause it is handy.

Therefore, the Jedi may not seem ethical or moral to us. However, they may be completely consistant within their own individual ethical standards and cultural morality.

So were the Nazis.

Oooooooohhhhh! I always wanted to shut down a discussion with Godwin's Law! I finally did it!

The take Force sensitive children away from their parents because it is dangerous to let them grow up with no training to use those powers.

However, any Jedi that fails to live by the Jedi rules will be expelled from the Jedi Order. In other words, free to use their Force powers for whatever they want.

You think the implications of the Jedi Order are bad?

Try reading B.F. Skinner's Walden 2 or Beyond Freedom and Dignity.

The basic premise is "hey, folks, you're not free anyway (which is true), so why not entrust yourselves into the keeping of us, competent behaviorists (who are still not exempt from any limitations anyone else is under, which makes this just another economical hierarchy)."

"So were the Nazis.

Oooooooohhhhh! I always wanted to shut down a discussion with Godwin's Law! I finally did it!"

There's a mighty big difference between putting down a rebellion and committing genocide of various subcultures within your own species because you deem them "impure."

Your "point" is moot.

The Jedi are ethical because they are the good guys. Elementary space opera.

While Qui-Gon was an adherent to the "Living Force" heresy that might have seen him take a stand against things like slavery, he was also a product of the last years of the Jedi Order, the Super Cops of the Republic. Episode 1 made the off-handed point that he had been subject to censure for his views in the past, so it is possible he had gotten used to not rocking the boat.

He was also out of his jurisdiction on Tattoine. It was a Hutt world, not a member of the Republic. None of the people he had a duty to protect lived there, aside from an incredibly Force-gifted child. The prophesy of the balanced Force was enough for him to basically ignore any secondary concerns on Tattoine once he found Anakin.

TLDR: Qui-Gon was flawed and Human. Big surprise.

"So were the Nazis.

Oooooooohhhhh! I always wanted to shut down a discussion with Godwin's Law! I finally did it!"

There's a mighty big difference between putting down a rebellion and committing genocide of various subcultures within your own species because you deem them "impure."

Your "point" is moot.

What part of the paragraph that I put in the quotation thingoe did you not bother to read?

"The Jedi are ethical because they are the good guys."

Hmm, they have a code of ethics, but they aren't necessarily 'good'.

As Emperor Palpatine points out, "from my point of view the Jedi are evil".

The Sith are Social Darminists, the Jedi are detached conservatives. Their rspective codes are mirror images of each other, but there is nothing in there about being 'good' although I suppose harmony might be a synonym for good.

There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

vs

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

Luke always struck me as rather passionate and not terribly peaceful or serene. The Sith however would make good investment bankers.

The Jedi are complete jerks.
We see Yoda on screen as he says that the Jedi Order has to conceal their failing powers from the government of the Republic, because otherwise their pensions might be jeopardized, or something… Yeah, we have to break our oaths and lie to the people we're sworn to protect… nice.
-Kle.

Lucas really hosed the whole idea of the Jedi in the Phantom-Clones prequel mess. In the original three movies the idea of using the Force was that it took training, meditation and discipline akin to a Zen-Buddist's devotion and dedication; and that with time, practice, patience and discipline you would develop ever greater Force powers. That's why the "Dark Side" was attractive to the weak willed -- it was a short cut to greater power.

But in the prequels we find that it's the "Midi-chlorian" count in your blood that mattered, little "Force bacteria" that allowed you to access the Force. The more of these little critters you have, the stronger you are.

So Lucas shifted the Force from a *spiritualistic* force into a purely bio-mechanical thing. One is left wondering why Darth Sidious didn't simply use the big Cloning facility on Camino to clone an entire Sith Army complete with Force powers! Hey, and why not have "Force Booster" shots to build up your midi-chlorian count??

He did the same thing with the Light Saber. The original idea of a Light Saber being only a Jedi's weapon is that it wasn't a laser beam, but Force energy focused by the Jedi through the Light Saber into a beam of pure Force energy. That's why the Light Saber was the soul of a Jedi, akin to a Samurai's sword, and associated so closely with the Jedi. And that's also why a Light Saber could slice through anything and block anything. But in the prequels he turned them into a purely mechanical tool no more special than a blaster, indeed we have robots and cyborgs swinging them. So again, from a spiritual tool to a purely mechanical device.

In short, the prequels sap all of the mystery and uniqueness of the Jedi out of the series and turns them from a small, honorable order of warrior monks into a weak-spirited, shallow bureaucracy.

Slavery was legal on Tatooine apparently. It is not the Jedi's job to change the laws of the planetary systems they visit. That is a job for the Senate. It would be like a policeman in New York trying to change the state's law all by himself. Law Enforcers may not like certain parts of the law, but they still have to enforce it. They weren't on the planet to try to change the system, they were there on a mission. The Jedi simply understood they could not intervene with the slavery issue so did not try to. That part of it all actually makes sense.

But the rest… not so much. I agree that the prequels spoiled matters atrociously.