"If George Lucas had got the rights to Flash Gordon" Topic

Just imagine if George Lucas had got the rights to Flash Gordon, there would be no Darth Vader, or Han Solo, or lightsabres! Would there have been as many movies made as Star Wars? Would there be Ming statues? Or Barin?

As I'm a HUGE fan of the actual Flash Gordon movie I'm very glad Lucas didn't get the rights, but just imagine with me…

I think Lucas would have made a very credible Flash Gordon movie. I don't think he would have made as many movies as he did with the Star Wars franchise. Just imagine, no Ewoks, no Jar Jar.

Would he have hired a script writer or would it then be Flash "plot in a blender" Gordon?

> Would he have hired a script writer or would it then be Flash "plot in a blender" Gordon?

Isn't that what Flash Gordon was anyway?

So, Lucas with Flash means no StarWars? Hard to imagine our pop-culture without StarWars… It is like a religion.
I'm sure Lucas would have done a good job. Then he would not know when to stop and write prequels, cartoons, etc… until we were all SICK of it….

and now he will make nothing else, because he can wallow in creative mediocrity, recycling his work into an endless montage of modifications and sell toys and DVDs until the cows come home and eat his soul…

"until the cows come home and eat his soul…"

Ah yes, one must always keep a look out for demonic soul sucking bovine. I do hear they make the most tender steaks though, I've got some blessed 300 win-mag rounds just in case they pay me a visit. I think Lucas would have done a pretty good job, I would deeply miss my Dino De Laurentiis Flash though.

flooglestreet what do you have against JAR JAR BINKS?

I'm a HUGE fan of JAR JAR BINKS as he's my favorite Star Wars character,so I'd like to know your views on Jar Jar.

Captain Gideon

Meesa-say someone Smokin' da Crack-pipe!

Ming shot first!

I'll go ahead and question all of the Lucas hate as well. I hear about how he's evil and just after your money. Well I really disagree. First off, each release of the films on DVD and Blu have included more and more extras. So your getting more content for plunking down your cash to re buy the films. But, Lucas didn't invent DVD or Blu-Ray. So how is it his fault the media keeps changing, which makes the re-release necessary. Then there is the Clone Wars. A great show period. And the season box sets have been lowering in price with the release of each season.(Season 1= 45.00 Season 3=32.00 Target prices.)

Compare this to say Avatar which released 3 separate versions at different price points. Or LOTR which was just released on Blu but with no extras or the extended cuts. So who is the corp again?

It really cracks me up to see people just regurgitating the opinions of some blogger in his basement.

The man invented the blockbuster in 1977 and reinvented it in 1999. Their is no tent pole movie in cinemas today that do not have the fingerprints of A New Hope and The Phantom Menace all over them. Before TPM, Titanic held the record for most effect shots in a film. It had 800. TPM has over 2500 effect shots. That is a huge leap forward. Hardly wallowing in creative mediocrity.

Now if someone at LFL would smarten up and give us 28mm Clones and droids the circle would be complete.

The force will be with you always…

Sorry, the prequals stunk. Although the third one was good up till the Vader scream.

I have no hate for Lucas.

He gave us Star Wars…you owe him your loyalty.

:)

Its funny most people dislike the the prequels. But here we are over a decade later. Were still talking about it. The characters from the prequels are enduring on their own TV show (number 1 property for boys 7-18). In fact the whole prequel universe is still going strong.

The Matrix (crap sequels), LOTR(main villain disappears in the second film, no scouring of the shire, various other plot changes), and even Avatar(fun while it lasted, but ultimately to generic to endure) have all faded into memory. To be fair all of those films have flaws just like the prequels.

Do I love the new films like I love A New Hope or Empire? NO. But I do enjoy them. Their are many, many, great moments that add to the overall experience.

Loyalty? no….

I feel just find about criticizing any work of art on it composition.

Lucas wanted to make a kids movie, he just mistook kids with stupid. I blame kids cartoon commercials that the serials became. Too much spongebob and not enough Gene Autry, Flash Gorden and the like…

The problem with most SF Movies is that they are rewritten by Script Writers and not SF writers…. Not that I am saying that SF writers are necessarily better at scripts, just less likely to skim over important points.

With that the Prequels blow chunks if you are above 6 or so…. Figure the average use of language in mass media is at about 6 grade level. Which is pretty good if you figure a third of the adult population is functionally illiterate.

The prequels are films for a global audience. The dialog is succinct because it gets translated to French, German, Polish, etc.

And sorry infojunky, the Clone Wars is episodic just like the old Flash Gordon serials. Watch the show. You can't miss the older influences Plot lines, costumes, even the ships have a design that is derived from the 30's serials. The show is probably the most pure SW vision after the original two films. Return of the Jedi is more like the prequels.

I do fail to see the Spongebob comparison…

I would love to see Lucas take a shot at Flash Gordon…if not Lucas then perhaps Jackson?

If there was no Star Wars there would still be a Star Trek. Which is likely still going to inspire a lot of other sci-fi. Let's face it most current sci-fi was not inspired by just one movie, Tomino created Gundam after being influenced by both Star Wars and the book Starhip Troopers. JMS has Babylon 5 from the Lensman series and it's said from Lord of the Rings.

Maybe a Flash Gordon by Lucas would have turned out better than that awful movie one was. I'm not sure I still liked the animated Flash Gordon TV series better than that movie.

I'm still waiting for word on a Lensman movie.

I liked the Flash Gordon movie…for what it was…it had its moments and there were some issues, but the theme, the color, the music, and certain elements were all balls!

A near perfect Voltan

A near perfect Ming

A completely perfect Princess Aura

*****

The animated series was loads of fun

*****

There was a anime version of Lensman: Power of the Lens (TV series reduced to a complied version for us stateside) though it was not all that respectful to the books…at all…but the lens theme was handled with an interesting flair.

YouTube link

I would also welcome a Lensman movie…though the general public would see a common element in Green Lantern without the context of which was the parent and which was the child I suspect.

Dead 'ard HornetsNestMinis!
I like the prequels.
Just as much as the originals.

The ONLY thing SW which stinks is…. *drum roll* The Holiday Special. Now THAT stunk.

…yes that was pretty stinky…

HornetsNestMinis close you eyes and listen to the dialog, then try to follow the plot…. The rest is just set dressing and flash. Then there is the heavy handed cyclic hero as in Hero of a thousand Faces.

What I said is Lukas should have concentrated on making a good movie instead of a kids movie. The prequels are loverly movies at points breathtaking in their cinematographic glory . Unfortunately hindered by juvenile dialog and wooden performances, which are failures in script writing, direction (despite having world class acting power in the cast) and editing.

But to the question, Pre jumping the shark Lucas, with current ILM, probably could make a great Flash Gorden, he could do is now if he has the wisdom not to direct.

Yes, I've seen the Lensman anime. Still have it as well, wished for something better.

But can not speak well of the Flash Gordon movie. So I'll leave it at that.

Just remembered Voltan from Flash Gordon played by Brian Blessed also voiced Boss Nass in Star Wars the Phantom Menace. How do you like that irony.

"What I said is Lukas should have concentrated on making a good movie instead of a kids movie. The prequels are loverly movies at points breathtaking in their cinematographic glory . Unfortunately hindered by juvenile dialog and wooden performances, which are failures in script writing, direction (despite having world class acting power in the cast) and editing.

But to the question, Pre jumping the shark Lucas, with current ILM, probably could make a great Flash Gorden, he could do is now if he has the wisdom not to direct"

Yes agreed wholeheartedly.

Only Warlock Yousa got a problem with Meesa?

There's nothing wrong withg liking JAR JAR BINKS now one SW character that I could've done without was that Gold plated Butler C3P0.

Captain Gideon

lotr has hardly faded away. The books were best sellers for decades before the movies – and remain so. They continue to have a massive fan base. Lotr miniatures continue to sell, albeit at a slower rate. The hobbit (in two parts) is in production, and then there is the mmo computer game lord of the rings online and the newly released war in the north (the latter based on peter jackson's new line movie licence). Lotr faded away? Hardly, you just have to know where to look.

As for lucas re releasing and re releasing his films. Sure he needs to release his films on the new formats as they arrive and yes, new extras are always welcome, but continuelly messing with the films themselves, so that now there are,well, how many versions? I've lost count. There is no need for that. It is that (and the missing-the-point prequels) that have turned him into such a laughng stock. He's lost the plot – i mean come on, he's even messed up Indy as well now! :( "Nuking the fridge" is the new "jumping the shark."

Regarding flash gordon; was not star wars partly a homage to flash and buck rogers any way?

Avatar, Matrix, LotR…just mentioning these in the same breath as "have all faded into memory" just boggles the mind…I found these to be massive successes and some of the best movies ever…the Matrix original as most examples tend to do outshone the sequels, but the sequels had many fun and entertaining elements.

But my first thought, gut reaction, is if these movies fail to set the bar…which movies reached this mighty hurtle?

I am interested in your thoughts not a fight…I find these sort of polarizing opinions really interesting, sometimes I have to relook at a subject that I may have let slide by without notice.

As for the Star Wars prequels catching veritable troops of poo slinging monkey attention…the only real issue I had was the choice and subsequent performance of that horrid little boy

whaa whaa whaaaaaaa

It is like choosing curtain number three and getting a goat instead of a brand new car!

You really think the teen Anakin performance gets a pass? Really?

Tip o' the iceberg. The emperor is butt-naked.

I remember going with my geek friends to see Flash Gordon when it came out… assuming it would be something like Star Wars… similar FX at least.
I was pretty disappointed at the time… it looked like it was from some pre-Star Wars era.
Years later though and I'm quite fond of it… to the point that I'd much rather watch it than any of the Star Wars movies… in part because I love Flash Gordon… and partly because the Lucas and his meddling prequels have lofted a stink over the whole franchise that will forever keep me at a distance.

You don't see the term "camp" used anymore yet that is exactly what the Flash Gordon movie was – pure unadulterated camp. The original Star Wars movie contained more camp than the later ones. If Lucas had done Flash Gordon, it would have been less campy, but still fun. If he had done it after discovering Joseph Campbell (or jumping on the Campbell bandwagon), it would have been presumptuous.

@Captain Gideon He is a little too stupid-but-lucky for my taste. That comedy scene, in the first prequel, where Jar Jar is riding the hovertank is too phoney. Although I do like the scene where he is responsible for the vote that trashes the Republic.

flooglestreet you do realize that Jar Jar was used by Palpatine don't you?

So DON'T blame Jar Jar Binks for what the Emperor did he used Jar Jar plain and simple,so the Emperor trashed the Republic.

Plus IMHO Jar Jar is FAR MORE entertaining than C3P0.

Captain Gideon

I think the greatest loss would be a John Williams score for Flash Gordon.

Thematically it just wouldn't work, IMO. Williams does 'grand if not pompous' very well (Star Wars themes). He does 'tender' and 'bittersweet' (Schindler's List). I haven't heard a single theme that does 'camp'/fun/lighthearted (not even the Harry Potter themes are light/fun).

Now, if they did a new Flash Gordon with Yoko Kanno (Cowboy Bebop, Escaflowne) writing the music, it would be *made* from awesome. I mean, how else can you describe someone who has their own personal TV tropes listing! (obligatory EVIL WEBSITE warning prior to linking link )

I mean,

Yoko Kanno is a famous Japanese composer and musician, known primarily for her work on anime soundtracks. Her name being attached to a project has caused 'And the Fandom Rejoiced' moments for many fans.

> I think the greatest loss would be a John Williams score for Flash Gordon.

Yes and No. We would not have the excellent Queen soundtrack – but don't forget that John Williams nearly single handedly brought orchestral scores back to movies. (certainly scifi movies). He would have come up with something different, but most likely entertaining.

Mr Lucas & the Flash Gordon movie? After what he did with those three SW prequels, absolutely not. Slap a fatwah or anything similar on him, keep him under house arrest, anything…

If it had been after the first ever SW film back in '77, then yes, probably. But from '79 onwards, my preference would always be Ridley Scott after 'Alien' came out. Scott would have a far better directorial eye, and I reckon he'd enjoy the 'camp' bit too – that would be a fun concept!

> my preference would always be Ridley Scott after 'Alien' came out.

I can't see Ridley Scott doing a good Flash Gordon movie, it's just not in his DNA. It would be like Paul Veerhoven directing a StarShip Troopers movie, in reverse…

I really meant the feel of the show. The soundtrack has a huge impact on how a show feels. Look at 'Cold Case', they use music of the time period to set the era. Otherwise, the story could really be anywhen.

It's most pronounced with anime, but it's still used in other places. Would Cowboy Bebop have been as cool without the soundtrack? Would it have been Macross without the music? For that matter, would it be the same Star Wars without the John Williams score?

I think we'd all agree that the answer to those questions is 'No, it wouldn't be the same.'

One of the biggest impacts that Star Wars had was on special effects (yeah, big surprise there). Just the forming of ILM pushed the envelope for what could be accomplished on screen. Without the impact of the effects in Star Wars (and also John Williams' score), there wouldn't have been Battlestar Galactica, the Star Trek relaunch, Alien, Blade Runner, etc. Maybe I'm wrong, and it's just a glossing over of history, but Star Wars and ILM have been portrayed as the launching pad for the SFX renaissance, in that it pushed everyone else to scour for the best talent and to innovate.

If Lucas had done Flash Gordon instead of Star Wars, would it have had the effect on the SFX industry?

He would've made 3 really great movies and then in the 90's he would have messed with the originals stating they didn't have the special effects that he wanted.
Then he would've made 3 very awful prequels that completley negate the premises that the originals were based on.

SonofThor-- Amen.

Plus it probably would have looked a lot more like the Buck Rogers movie… which I think was all wrong (except for Erin Gray of course).

Captain Gideon. Jar Jar was not used by Palpatine. The actor who portrayed Jar Jar had lines in a script showing the Jar Jar character playing into the hands of the Palpatine character. I happened to like that part of that movie. However, some of the physical comedy used in the first film was far too outrageous.

By the way, I want to see a series of Lensman films too, provided they follow the books fairly well.

flooglestreet when you say that Jar Jar was playing into the hands of the Emperor/Palpatine then that means that he was being used by Palpatine.

And the actor who played Jar Jar Binks was named Ahmed Best.

And if Amidala was in the senate where she was supposed to be then Jar Jar would not be blamed,since I blame 2 people Amidala and Palpatine.

And I don't think that the physical comedy in Episode I was not too outrageous IMHO.

Captain Gideon

Honestly, the Flash Gordon music by Queen was one of the things that killed it for me. On the other hand I was surprised what Toto did for Dune, with some help from Brian Eno.

John Williams is ok, but I tend to find his music repetitive. Much like most of James Horner's work, you know it's his as soon as you hear it. Now Yoko Kanno is much like Jerry Goldsmith in they can make their music sound like some one else's. R.I.P. Jerry. BTW Lion I don't think Yoko did the original Macross music, just later Macross Plus and Macross Frontier. I know she also did Turn A Gundam and Brain Powered, both Tomino series. (a happier Tomino)

But you get what I mean, right?

Would it have been Star Wars without the soundtrack? A third of the movie would have been 'missing', IMO (or at least *very* different).

If Lucas had done Flash Gordon instead of Star Wars, would it have had the effect on the SFX industry?

I think we wouldn't have seen the renaissance of scifi movies, at least not to the same extent. And at least on some levels, I would say that would have been a good thing! Moviemakers would have never discovered that all you need to fill seats is a huge SFX budget, and Cameron's Avatar would probably never have happened. If Avatar had happened, it might have had a better story.

Maybe we could get GL (George Lucas, not Green Lantern), to do an 'updated/re-imagined' FLASH GORDON for the 21st Century and maybe even get Spielberg involved too????

But Brian Blessed STILL has to be 'Vultan'….(if he's still got the 'wings' for it!)

Slishfully,
Sgt DWW-btod

If George Lucas got his hands on the Flash Gordon franchise, he would have tried too hard to make it realistic and would have spoiled all of the kitsch, pulp charm that the series and films had.

It would have ended up better as a sci-fi film…but would have lost all of the character.

No Star Wars would have meant no Avatar???

I could live with that. I'd hate to sacrifice Star Wars but to get rid of Avatar would be worth it.

Sorry guys, some movies just come along and I just hate them in a way that I forget they even exist.

I just wish the story they were telling with Avatar was the equal of the visuals.

Brian Blessed is the only actor who could play Voltan, I can't imagine the line 'Gordon's alive?' coming from any other actor.

I also can't imagine a world without lightsabres and Darth Vader, though I'm sure Lucas would have done a good job on Flash. Cetainly Klytus/Clytous (spell?) is a Vaderesque charecter and he could have been a sort of Vader. I don't know enough about the early FG to know where he came from. Maybe he would have ended up as Flash's dad…

I'd love to see the battle with the Hawkmen on War Rocket Ajax with Stormtroopers.