"Spanish Artillery carriage colours, 1812" Topic

Anyone know what colour Spanish artillery carriages were around 1812?
Also, I bought some Old Glory 15mm Spanish Napoleonic line infantry for the War of 1812 in Florida. The figures seem to have, in addition to cartridge boxes, a small pouch on the waist, on the right hand side. Any idea what this represents?

You can find a list of Napoleonic artillery colours here: link

Spanish gun carriages are listed as dark grey or stained wood with black fittings.

Dear Glen
The carriage colour should be the Bourbon blue-grey up to 1808. The Spanish painted their ordnance in a blue grey and not as some authors think grey. The pigment was cobalt blue and when exposed to the weather for years it has a tendency to fade to a grey. The cobalt blue was derived from cobalt oxide mined in southern Spain that was sintered with silica (sand) at 1200 C. It was a very stable colour and was popular too in the Spanish Naval Regulations from 1772. The nature of the pigment was that it would tend to a grey.

Siege and garrison guns were stained or pained red with black fittings.

Extract from my new book
"Spanish Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery of 1808" that will be published in the Spring of 2012.

It is unlikely that the Spanish repainted their guns supplied by the British so were in a medium grey.
Stephen

The pouch is probably a cartridge box. Until 1808 the Spanish light infantry wore it on their waist belt on their belly, but with the change in uniform then, they were forced to move it to the right side, still on the waist belt.

Dear Glen
"Old Glory 15mm Spanish Napoleonic line infantry for the War of 1812 in Florida. The figures seem to have, in addition to cartridge boxes, a small pouch on the waist, on the right hand side. Any idea what this represents?"

This belly cartridge box is very unual for line infantry but was common for Spanish Light Infantry [Cazadores], Miqueletes (militia) who use the Escopetera Musket made in Catalonia.

Also Zapadores (sappers) wore their cartidge box there as shown in the Suhr plates.

Another possibility is this is where he was keeping his cigarello (cigarettes) or more likely the tools for his musket and bullet casting. Alas I do not know the figure that you are referring to.

It is likely that the Spanish troops in Florida were following the pre-1808 practice rather than the later style that was influenced by the British and the French.

Gerard Cronin and Stephen Summerfield (Spring 2012) Spanish Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery of 1808: Uniforms, Organisation and Equipment, Ken Trotman Publishing.

This is going through the final stages of proofing so us authors can get a little tetchy. As we realised that we had not explained about the positioning of the cartidge box.

I hope that is clearer. No doubt Gerard can clarify the situation.
Stephen

Thanks all! It's always posible that the pouch on the line infantry figure may have been included in error by the manufacturer, a not unheard of development. For my War of 1812 Spanish I am following the pre-1808 uniform. there's not much to go on for Spanish troops in Florida (I found some info online) of the time, which I admit is a bit of an obscure topic!

Hello Stephen. Any idea what color Spanish guns would be for the 1830s ist Carlst War? Thanks. Mark Stevens

Dear Glen
It may well be by mistake as you say. The information about the Spanish Army in 1808 let alone the colonial troops is rather patchy to say the least.
Stephen

Dear Mark
I will see if I can find any information upon the colours. Alas it is not easy to find. It could be that the Spanish reverted to the blue with a slight grey tinge. Sorry I cannot be more specific at present.
Stephen

Gents

a fascinating topic indeed….my pennyworth on the subject is the Spanish troops up to 1815 in many cases still wore
the cartridge box to the fore…….

examples areRegimiento de infanteria ligera de cazadores
de Castilla Soldado……who despite an array of uniform
changes wore the bicorn and sported the cartridge box

other light units wore the shako and cartrige box…the line
tended to wear then on an untanned leather belt to the side.

Stephen is correct in his suggestions, to be honest these
boxes were often crammed with personal trinkets of any worth
as a matter of course

a good book on the subject is
los uniforms del Estago militar De eSPANA del ano 1815

and my forthcoming book with Stephen will clarify the
cartridge box scenario

regards
Ged
gringo40s.com
gringo40s.blogspot.com
gjm.figurines.co.uk