"WWII: 15mm or 20mm?" Topic

OK, if I wanted to start WWII gaming, would you recommend 15mm or 20mm?

I know 15s are popular because of Flames of War, but having just seen V's No. 2 platoon with AB figures, I was impressed with how much more 28mm-like the 20mm could be.

But if I were to go 20mm, which are the best figure lines -- and are vehicles difficult to find?

And about how many figures would I need per side for a typical 20mm WWII game?

Sorry -- I know this is an incredibly open-ended question with lots of potential answers, but I'd really appreciate some input.

Thanks
benglish

15mm all the way, though really it should be whichever scale gets you games. If you were happy collecting and painting up a 20mm force, but everyone in your local area or club plays 15mm then you were probably best to go 15mm.

20mm vehicles, you have the option of die cast pre paints etc, all of which vary in cost from super cheap to silly expensive. In terms of figures, I'd avoid Valiant – nice sculpts but they're very large. Other than that it's personal choice, there are some excellent manufacturers in the 20mm WW2 space.

But go 15mm ;)

It really boils down to personal choice, local availability of ranges (unless you're buying everything on the web) & who you're likely to play against – if they already have 20mm figures or terrain then theres much to be said for sticking with that 'scale'.

There is very little that isn't available in either 15mm or 20mm, although in 20mm there are the Dragon etc prepainted vehicles which saves building & painting time, although at a cost.

Most rule sets aren't particularly scale specific & will work equally for 15 & 20mm.

As to numbers, that depends upon the ruleset and unit scale that you choose – anywhere between 30 per side with a couple of vehicles to thousands.

I've got a friend who's pursued WWII in 20mm for … decades now. I personally wandered down the 28mm path, but I can't help but look over the fence and envy what he's got, sometimes.

Personally, I've never liked the human proportions to 15mm. The infantry look like chubby kids dressed up in army surplus. 20mm often captures human proportions better than even my 28mm guys sometimes do. Many 20mm figures are wonderfully animated and detailed, too. 20mm plastic infantry are insanely cheap -- I've never compared the prices to 15mm, but I wouldn't be surprised if 20mm rocks in comparison.

It's very much a matter of taste. If you're playing with others, it's probably important to agree on a scale before you proceed. Or, like I chose, do what you want and plan on building both sides of the conflict for others to play.

I just jumped back into WW2 and went with 20mm.

Any vehicle I could think of I was able to find. Infantry figures are abundant from many different manufacturers. Terrain is easy to find.

I found 20mm easier to paint and more appealing.

20mm's probably the best, of all the scales, for WWII, unless you are on a budget.

The price increases for 15's also make 20's more attractive as well.

Tons of selection in 20mm too, which I define as 1/76th scale.

I've done WW2 in 15mm and in recent months have moved on to doing it in 20mm. I really like 20mm (which for some is 1/76, others 1/72 or a mixture of both), especially as that is the stuff I used to collect as a lad when I built lots of models & had my Airfix figures all over the dining room table.
I also have to agree that generally speaking 20mm figures look better proportioned. Also you don't have to spend a fortune, as plastic kits & figures are available for most of what you might need. You could always get metal figures from the likes of AB or Kellys Heroes to fill in the gaps.

Plastic stuff is making things cheaper, so you could almost have a go at 15mm & 20mm- start small- and see which you prefer.
Hope this helps & doesn't confuse you further.

Cheers,
jacksarge

I favor 10mm.

> I was impressed with how much more 28mm-like the 20mm could be.

Well, it's all a matter of taste: being 28mm-like would definitely put me off. As well as being less 28mm-like, 15mm gives you the advantage of getting more battlefield into a given space.

The advantage of 15 over 20 is not as emphatic as its advantage over 28, and 20mm still has an astonishing variety of gear … however a great deal of 20mm's variety comes in the form of kits (so if you like plastic, and like assembling kits, 20mm is for you). 15mm has a few plastic kits but is mostly supplied with wargame models (metal and resin/metal hybrids) which are much quicker to prepare.

Of course, if you don't like plastic and building kits, 20mm's variety advantage goes and it also ends up significantly more expensive than 15mm.

In the end 10s or 15s win unless you like building kits. If you really like the style of 28mm, then build a bigger table and go for that (though my guess is you'll still end up with skirmishes rather than battles, whatever) …

Phil
pbeyecandy.wordpress.com

Depends on what kind of games you want to have but with 20mm's I'd definately go for plastics.

My gaming groups does WWII with 20mm (plastics) as well as 6mm. Just last week we talked that since nowadays there's plenty of 15mm stuff (locally) available going that route wouldnät be a bad choice if we were to start our collections from scratch. In more skirmish oriented games 15mm might be a tad on the smaller size so distinguishing all relevant detail on figures might be a problem with smaller scale.

Depends on what your preferences are. 1/72-20mm has the advantage of better human anatomy, cheaper vehicles and infantry along with a huge variety of available terrain items.

Thanks,

John

i'd go 20mm, then 20mm and then 20mm. There are so many wonderful figures and vehicles available. Terrain can also look wonderful.

Here's what is possible

link

I do WW2 in 12mm and my youngest son does it in 20mm. I prefer painting the 20mm stuff but prefer the look of the 12mm when it is on the table.

As others have said, it all depends on the sort of games that you want and what matters to you.

We play in 6mm, 12mm, 20mm and 28mm all depends on the size and detail required for the game.

I tend to collect 20mm mostly for ww2 and I tend to organise quite large club games using 20mm [last Saturday 7 players with 8+ tanks each and infantry for a 4 hour game].

If we go much larger than this then we tend to use 12mm.

Are you a model builder? If so, then 20mm (lots of kits)

Do you want to get it on the table fast? Then 15mm (and a can of spray paint )

20mm has massive amounts of resin tanks so if you don't like building models you can still build an army. I'm not sure you can find everything in 20mm, I'm still looking for a Soviet T-18.

20mm no other scale. Simple as that, although I am biased. But I have been gaming ww2 and ww1 in 20mm since the seventies

For individual mounting I would go 20mm for unit mounting I would go 15mm. 15mm vehicles are cheaper as well.

You don't have to be a hardcore plastic modeller for 20mm.

There are a lot of nice looking resin and metal "kits" with only a handful of parts to glue together and you are in business.

Although I think I can still put a Matchbox Honey or Airfix Crusader together from memory…

20mm

All those 1/72nd, 1/76th models, plastic and diecast. Many resin and metal wargame kits too, and most HO RxR buildings and terrain will work, and SOOOO many mini's and buildings to choose from, there is a lot of good stuff for 15mm but not near the veriaty.

F-Bear

Depends on what type of game experience your looking for in my opinion. if you want large battles or just a lot of tanks 15 is great. In 15mm I like infantry if its unit based and if I want more than a couple tanks and room to manuver a bit. I am just starting to do some 20mm as well. I cant stand 15mm infantry single based as its far to small for that but 20 is great while still being small enough that I can use a tank or 2 here and there.

Oh how near and dear to my heart! 20mm is the way to go. Not that 15mm is bad. I just have a long past with the Airfix, Esci, Matchbox…etc. kits from youth. I find that they are plentiful and reasonbly cheap, both figures and vehicle kits. I also find that when they are based and painted, they have a better visual presences than the tiny tikes (15mm). If you are looking for a rule system, there is a new rule book out called Blood and Guts. I picked up a copy. It reads easy and the rules are good. Go 20mm!

15mm if your thinking Flames of War.

20mm if your thinking anything else.

Quick builds are now flooding the 20mm market and are cheaper, easier to build and better proportioned than 15mm vehicles. (Also for the health concious no heavy metal or resin).

Infantry has always been cheaper and better proportioned.

Terrian can be obtained from any model rail road shop.

Great scale awaiting a great set of rules.

TomT

ABQ172scale put it best … 20mm is near and dear to my heart becuase I grew up building thost 1/72nd/1/76th scale kits and loved those plastic mini's. To me that was WWII modeling and playing.

Just gone back in to WW2 as well, must be something in the water?
I prefer quality and AB figs IMHO is just that, no silly poses, accurate uniforms and equipment, even faces look like faces! As for vehicles, Milicast and Cromwell. I know they aint cheap but boy are they good, and yes you will wait for Cromwell's stuff but again IMHO it's worth it.
Hope that helps.

Neither 28mm is the best scale out there!

Well, Ive tried it with 6mm, 10mm, 15mm, 20mm!!

I still think 20mm gives the best game, there's just something classic about 20mm, plenty of choice (including buildings, transfers, add on bits and bobs), easy painting and converting (if required) and a great sense of satisfaction seeing them on the table. You feel you are actually playing a game! And you can properly see what the guys are armed with.

The Wargames Holiday centre even uses 20mm in Flames of War games….

Oh yes, very affordable too. You can double your force for a given budget compared to 15mm. Armourfast have regular deals of just £2.50 a tank.

You do need a good size table though. The bigger the better really. 8x4 or larger. If space is really a problem, and your maximum table size is going to be 6x4, then go for 10mm.

If you only have other scales in the area for opponents, (e.g. FOW 15mm) then you might have to go with that.

Simples. <tschk>

I would go with 20mm. Or should I say, I have gone with 20mm for the past 45 years. I use 20mm for single based figures and for groups of figures on a base. For singles, as others have said, you can see what weapon a figure is carrying. For multiple figures on a base, they are not so big (28mm) that they won't fit reasonably well, and they still look great!

For an idea of just how many sets of 20mm figures are available, visit <plasticsoldierreview.com>

I have built lots of vehicle kits (and quite a few conversions and scratchbuilds), but the quickbuilds and pre-cast models are constantly increasing in number.

For operational-level games (company is basic maneuver element) I have played Command Decision in 20mm since 1989. Now in Edition 4, it just gets better.

"Blood and Guts" is a great system for small-unit actions. Each maneuver element is a platoon. I have the book, and I have played several games. Highly recommended!

As the question is on gaming, rather than painting/collecting, look at what the local gaming scene uses.

At our club, a bunch of us kicked off with 10mm, for BKC, but 15mm, for FoW, soon took over.

Whilst you can play FoW in 20mm, finding opponents could be tricky, depending on your local scene. As has been said previously, 20mm is a better modelling scale, for lots of reasons, but the lack of a commonly accepted ruleset hampers the gaming side.

I just recently picked up some WWII AB figures in 20mm, finished painting a few, SOOOOO NICE!!

20mm ALL THE WAY lol. Now I have to find people in my area to play .. .

At least with 20mm you can afford to buy both armies to field in the game!

Especially if you use Valiant. Cheaper than chips!

problem with AB is that the range is stuck and nothing unfortunately gets produced.

I chose 15mm as a good compromise between speed to put on the table, space to store and play, and detail

28mm is a scale that allows you to wargame and create a collection of soldiers/equipment that will be valued for many years.

I know micro scales are useful for flank actions but they will remain game pieces somewhat those you would find in a board game,even detailed as some might be they are still minute pieces.

This is just an opinion,I do like most scales from 1/72 to 1/32,28mm,40mm and so on.

Um, 20mm/ 1/72 scale, of course:

gallery.me.com/blackwidowpilot

Like there's even a question as to which is The One True Scale for Wargaming!

Leland R. Erickson

Why decide? You can do all of them, like me….

1/285 (6mm): Americans, Russians, and French (yeah, no Germans – I have friends who take care of that)
15mm (FOW): Germans and Americans
20mm (1/72): Germans and Russians; still finding a rules set to stick with for this scale. I may try out Kampfgruppe Normandy, despite the cost, the manufacturer's non-historical reputation, and the confused title!