"Darth Vader or Luke Skywalker?" Topic

Seems a simple question but I do not think we have ever done a poll on them on TMP?

So who do you prefer, Darth Vader, single handily destroyed the Jedi order, fearless leader of the Imperial forces in many conflicts, able to crush incompetent commanders with a flick of his wrist, never ducked away from a laser blast, First man thought the door of the breach at Hoth, Firm yet sensitive guy who was not afraid to face his dark side. Only person taller than him was Chewbacca. Oh and voice to die for.

OR

Luke Skywalker, five foot two if an inch, whiny twerp who's most famous quote is;

"But Uncle Owen, I wanted to go to the academy this year!"

Who's flying ability is suspect at best, got shot down in his first engagement, had his X-wing shot up in the trench of the Death Star, and had to rely on a droid and a geriatric to even get on back on target.

And let's not forget his poor situation awareness, even sand people kicked his butt. Darth Vader wiped out an entire sand people village single handed.

Childhood? Luke grew up the privileged only child of rich plantation owners, He even had a scholarship to attend the military academy, Darth Vader was the son of a single mother and on top of that he was a slave.

And Luke's love life? He had a crush on and kissed his own sister! Darth Vader seduced a teen age queen of her planet.

Darth Vader was racing pod racers at the age of 10, and Luke Skywalker was still at 20 riding around on his Uncle Owen's swoop bike.

Vader had a cooler uninform as well. Every inch a elite commando while Luke flew around in an orange training jump suit.

Heck he even have to go back to school on Degobah for remedial training!

While Luke was playing laser tag on the Millennium Falcon by that age Darth Vader was a veteran Jedi Warrior of the Clone Wars.

Pretty easy to see where I fall on the issue.

VR
James Mattes

I <gasp> embrace the <wheeze> dark side.

Darth Vader.

Played by Dave Prowse; a west-country gent from England. Obviously replaced in voice by James Earl Jones and in face by…some other bloke.

Mental, evil, charismatic, powerful and enigmatic.

Luke Skywalker.

Played by Mark Hamil…

…enough said.

Darth Vader for the win (even though he didn't)…but he did bring order to the force in the end so he even took that away from Luke.

Darth Vader vs Luke Skywalker

A furious light sabre duel is under way. DARTH VADER is backing LUKE SKYWALKER toward the end of the gantry.

A quick move by Vader, chops off Luke's hand! It goes spinning off into the ventilation shaft.

Luke looks round, but realizes there's nowhere to go but straight down.

DARTH VADER: "Obi Wan never told you what happened to your father."

LUKE: "He told me enough! He told me you killed him!"

DARTH VADER: "No! I am your father!"

LUKE: "No, that's not true! That's impossible."

DARTH VADER: "Search your feelings; you know it to be true."

LUKE: "NO!"

DARTH VADER: "Yes, it is true and you know what else? You know that queer brass droid of yours?"

LUKE: "Threepio?"

DARTH VADER: "Yes, Threepio, I built him when I was 7 years old."

LUKE: "No."

DARTH VADER: "Seven years old! And what have you done? Look at yourself, no hand, no job, and couldn't even levitate your own ship out of the swamp."

LUKE: "I destroyed your precious Death Star!"

DARTH VADER: "When you were 20! When I was 10, I single-handedly destroyed a Trade Federation Droid Control ship!"

LUKE: "Well, it's not my fault."

DARTH VADER: "Oh, here we go. 'Poor me, my father never gave me what I wanted for my birthday, boo hoo, my daddy's the Dark Lord of the Sith…waahhh wahhh!' You make me sick."

LUKE: "Shut up!"

DARTH VADER: "You're a slacker! By the time I was your age, I had exterminated the Jedi Knights!"

LUKE: "I used to race my T-16 through Beggar's Canyon!"

DARTH VADER: "Oh, for the love of God, 10 years old, winner of the Boonta Eve Open. Only human to ever fly a Pod Racer, right here baby!"

Luke looks down the shaft. Takes a step toward it.

DARTH VADER: "I was wrong. You're not my kid. I don't know whose you are, but you sure ain't mine. Get out of my sight, you loser!"

Luke takes a step off the platform, hesitates, then plunges down the shaft. Darth Vader looks after him.

DARTH VADER: "AND GET A HAIRCUT!"

Nice, David, but I hope you don't have father/son issues that you're re-directing… ;)

(Oh, the flak the critics gave Lucas about that…)

I have to vote for Luke, but then I am biased… a Certain Lady in my life is a serious Lukeophile, and woe betide me should I dissent… ^o^

Luke is a typical wannabe revolutionry.
"Of course I hate the Empire." Why? Because all the Cool Kids do.
Does he ever do anything about it? Heck, no! He wants to go to the Academy!
Some rebel.
He only becomes a member of a cell to meet girls. And as pointed out above, she turns out to be his sister.

All Luke does is drive around blowing things up, with predictable environmental damage.
Google "Endor Holocaust".
link

I bet Lucas wanted to go to cut sugar cane for Fidel in the early 70s, but his Mom wouldn't let him go because of his allergies.

The bigger question is, if you found out your dad was Lord Vader why would you NOT join him?

Well, if he just lopped off my hand, and I was naturally a whiney little , I may be so upset at the injury that I refuse to join him out of spite. It would also give me something else to whine about later.

Additionally, if one was a whiney , joing Darth would probably not end well. He doesn't seem one to accept whiney excuses. Yoda and Obi were much more nurturing in that respect.

Robot Chicken did a similar reveal. Vader;"And the Force?Well, that's just something in your blodstream known as midichlorians." Luke;"Look,if you're not gonna take this thing seriously,I'm outta here."(walks off camera).

"Well, if he just lopped off my hand, and I was naturally a whiney little , I may be so upset at the injury that I refuse to join him out of spite."

Pffft! It's just a hand. At your age I've had both hands, both legs and half of my head chopped off or burnt by lava!

Rick Hayes, Jr. says it better than I can.

Actually, Darth Vader not only destroyed the Jedi….didn't he also ultimately destroy the Sith? Wow….

Since there seems to be a chrono comparison;

Anakin/Vader…there is talk about Luke being whiny and yet there is little mentioned about fatherless Ani being a creepy little punk that completely ruined a movie with his inane pondering, horrific lack of emotions, and in general being the weirdest little freak.

He is removed from his mother…not even a blink, "bye"…freak.

Don't forget…no father…his mother was impregnated by the force…really?

Least we forget the immaculate conception…Ani is the midi-chlorian jesus…really?

"Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise, he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life"

On a personal note…I absolutely despised the whole young Anakin…I blame the child actor (what can you do?) with his whole deadpan blaa blaa blaa blaa…worst child actor ever.

Then moving on to the late teens and early twenties considerations…Luke is 1970's pampered farmboy whiny true but compared to Ani's 2000's Emo routine…"I'm sad because they don't tell me I'm the best" "I'm disgruntled and pouty" "I'm too young to care about anything but what I want"…which one of your son's deserves the ass beating to straighten him up?

Hmmm if you could you would beat Ani senseless…dark Emo creep…cry me a river you sad sack.

When one looks the same age comparison of Ani and Luke as young men…the numbers stack up against Emo Ani.

Ani is the kid with a black trench coat walking down the hall at school with the intent to…yes folks…he is going to murder all the children at the elementary school.

Luke at the same age is entering the war with little to no training trying to do the right thing…sounds like Grandpa heading of to fight the Nazis.

So really, which 20yr old do you really support?

Sorry, they were both whiney little s. It's just that Darth learned, after 16 years under the Emperor, to keep it to himself. But look at Anakin back in the day. "But why can't I be a Jedi Master? Waah!"

Male Skywalkers are the kind of kids you want to hang on a flagpole by their underwear!

I don't think I could ever side with Vader. He personally slaughtered dozens of mostly defenseless children. You can't tell me that guy is "cool".

I'm with 28mmMan. I've always been a Luke fan though, I didn't need Emo Ani from the prequels to make my mind up.

Vader – up till that "nooooooooo" garbage, after that he was just a wussy.

Well now it was Darth Vader who asked Skywalker to join with him and defeat the Emperor and restore balance to the force.

As for destroying the Jedi Academy it was a cult and represented a threat to the government hence order 66. The 501st Legion along with Darth Vader went to the order to destroy it. It was a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away!

VR
James Mattes

Chewbacca owns them both.

For a possible glimpse into the inner psyche of Darth Vader, check this out:

darthside.blogspot.com

Earliest posts are at the bottom of the page.

At least Luke tried to do the "right thing" and tried to save his friends and his father.
As soon as he heard who his father was or his friends were in trouble Luke would go off to save them. Obi-wan needs a lift, and he might get in trouble, sure Ill give him a lift.

Vader did not try and free his mother "the slave" for what 10 years or more. Too concerned with his own life.

Friends, Anikin was too much of a spoiled brat to even have friends. He would just whine and complain about not being a Jedi master.

Vader also had no control of his temper, none at all. At least Luke tried to control his emotions. You would think after all that Jedi training Anikin could at least have a little control.

As for Luke wanting to leave the farm who could blame him for that? Hey Luke, were going off to fight the empire wanna come? No, sorry Biggs sorry I gotta farm some water.

Luke all the way.
He was more human.

Inari7,
I find your lack of faith in the Dark Side deeply disturbing.

VR
James Mattes

Well now it was Darth Vader who asked Skywalker to join with him and defeat the Emperor and restore balance to the force.

Sure. Or maybe it was because there was only a Master and a Sith, so Vader needed Luke's help to off the emporer to make Vader the Master…

Part of why the glory of Star Wars faded for me. Luke was irritating, but nobidy beats Anakin for hopelessly irritating main character

> Vader did not try and free his mother "the slave" for what 10 years or more. Too concerned with his own life

He was still a child/teen for most of those ten years, had to do what he was told from the Jedi, and the kicker was – the JEDI didn't seem none to concerned about slavery either, they just brushed it aside as just another one of those things.

Vader is a much more interesting character. I often amuse myself in KOTOR replicating his fall, and if there is time, his redemption as well.

I have to agree with an earlier post: Once he slaughtered those younglings Vader lost any "cool" villain factor he might have had. Yes its just fiction but still….

Inari7 nails it.

We judge our heroes by their actions.

Luke was a whiner for sure, that is why everyone likes Han Solo more … but whatever his faults he respected his elders, faced up to his responsibilities, and always tried to do the right thing. His failures came from inexperience, and he persevered to ultimately reverse them.

Anakin … unappreciative, arrogant, undisciplined, disrespectful, lacking in self-control, and ultimately, murderous and a bully. We all have flaws we must rise above, but in his case it's not clear he ever seriously tried to master them, or even showed any regret that he could not. His failures came directly from his personality faults, and they were enormous.

Neither was portrayed by a great actor, but even there, I'd take Luke. Hamill was elsewhere no great success as an actor but the director team made him work as Luke. Christensen was good in other roles, and may ultimately have a very rich film career, but his Anakin is not impressive.

Dynaman8789 08 Oct 2011 11:26 a.m. PST wrote:
and the kicker was – the JEDI didn't seem none to concerned about slavery either, they just brushed it aside as just another one of those things.

I can think of some other "Knights" that "Could" not have "Cared" any lesser about slavery as well. I am just saying….
VR
James Mattes

Who is this Anakin character everyone keeps mentioning?

I suspect some folks here believe there are more Star Wars movies than Episodes 4-6. I just can't wrap my head around that.

"Well now it was Darth Vader who asked Skywalker to join with him and defeat the Emperor and restore balance to the force.

As for destroying the Jedi Academy it was a cult and represented a threat to the government hence order 66. The 501st Legion along with Darth Vader went to the order to destroy it. It was a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away!"

True he was following orders…but one rescues children from cults, one does not slaughter them.

*****

The movies reflect the period they were made in and in truth I am not a hater on any of the movies. I stood in line and was first in the midnight showing for Star Wars in '77 and as I was 11yrs old it left a firm unyielding mark on my person that any movie later can not touch…because I will never be 11yrs old in 1977 again, you can not alter that aspect.

They were both young, dumb, and full of…verve…as a youthful protagonist should be. Seeing Ani go through the fall is only really understood by those with some life under their belt…life is not all roses and soft pillows. I can understand and appreciate Ani's fall, to be truthful I suspect I would have fallen to the dark side around 19-20yrs old myself…hopefully to redeem myself later. This builds drama.

But to celebrate a villain over a hero, even in all fictional fun is interesting.

As Darth Vader we see the perfect villain, one that is not untouchable…he was and still is human (at least in the gooey center like a Cadbury chocolate egg)…

I still have to go with Luke…limited training, on his own for the most part, and still becomes the crux of restoring order to the force/galaxy.

*****

It is just a couple of movies but I like Luke and his honest farmboy turned hero, even with all the cheese and wine.

The only good things that came from those movies were double-bladed lightsabers and Clone Troopers…

I'm with Vader, ok he does some evil things, mostly because he was manipulated by someone very adept at manipulation, but later he redeems himself by killing the Emperor and ending the reign of the Imperium. All Luke does is tag along to a few major events, then get his bleep whipped by the emperor. Its Vader who saves the Galaxy, even though he was instrumental in the atrocities that led to the fall of the Republic. He's the true hero.

If my only choices are the two listed, I'll go with Luke. Luke may have been whiny in episode 4, but Vader as Annakin was twice as whiny.

Maybe whining leads to the darkside.

Luke.

My stance: Eps 4 & 5: The real thing.

Ep6: Meh. If we have to have it, we have to.

Ep 1-3: Never happened.

Now, imagine if Lucas had:

1. Hired Lawrence Kasdan to script 6 and 1-3
2. Hired a competent director like Chris Nolan or, well, anybody but George himself.
3. Presented Anakin in Ep 1. as a 15-year old, played by someone competent.
4. Turned the adult Anakin into a truly effective battlefield commander with strategic and tactical genius, not just a whiny lone-wolf with fancy dance moves.

Result? We get the anger and "he's too old" stuff in Ep. 1, because what 15 year old in the same situation wouldn't be believably sullen? We also accept that the 18-year-old Princess might fall for the brooding hero a few years later, when he actually is a young man and not just a glorified frat boy.
Then, we have an adult Anakin (truly adult) who develops a political viewpoint that is at odds with his position of responsibility, and his betrayal becomes an abuse of authority "for the good of the people" as he sees it. Imagine a scene where he's angsting not over the fate of his wife and himself, but over concern that the Republic is falling into deadly chaos and must be "saved from itself," etc., etc..

That could have been amazing, and, if done right, would have made viewers actually care that the adult Anakin/Vader be redeemed in Ep 6.

But instead we got a bunch of whiney emo blather from an obnoxious, spoiled punk who apparently has the intellectual capabilities of a moldy cabbage. He gets chopped and burned? Big Hairy Deal.

Compared to that, Luke is tops in every way.

Have to go with Darth, since he is the more interesting of the two.

I only saw the first two movies. Can't really say. Both have plusses and minusses. Maybe Han Solo.

The Re[public deserved to be overthrown.
It was incapable of functioning and ruled by aristocrats.

The Empire was open to talent, and you did not have to be born an aristocrat.
How can Queen Armadillo be at the same time the rightful ruler and an "elected" queen?

Lets face it. Lucas is incapable of a coherent thought. And he realizes that, which is why he keeps changing things.

No matter how you put it, ultimately Han Solo is way cooler than both of them together.

Fast ship, check.
awesome blaster, check.
shot at Vader TWICE and lived! Double Check!!
Gets the hottie Princess and she lives! SCORE! (he'll ask her to wear that slave outfit later.)

Han has it all.

Yea but Han and Chewbacca don't count! Chewy has the best 70s haircut bar none.

VR
James Mattes

The movies, and I mean the whole damn series, is about Vader, the Chosen One, who restores balance to the Force. It takes one hell of an odd journey to do it, but in the end, it all works out, thanks to Vader/Anakin.

If you voted Luke, you missed the point.

I've actually heard that Lucas didn't have a lot of control over casting and directing in Eps 1-2-3. I mean, we know all those people can act, they have all done other good work before and after.

I want the name of the person who decided to cast that 8-yr-old as Anakin. They're going on *the* list. If they would have picked someone older (Padme was supposed to be 13 or 14, so Anakin should have been close to that), it would have really helped the movie.

Luke Skywalker all the way , its the ' Hero's Journey ' remember ? Vader's only redemption is in death.

They are both archetypes that couldn't be changed if we wanted them to, and still have the story remain the same.

Now… The SCRIPT for those stories.. That could change.

But if you look at the Tropes and Archetypes, the Villain is Always more interesting than the Hero.

That is just the way it is.

That is why the Anti-Hero was invented, so that people would have the same emotional engagement to the Hero as they typically did with the Villain.

You guys are missing it. It all about R2-D2, and he is think the entire time "what a buncha shmucks".

He keeps the Queer Droid around to take all the flak and hater of droids stuff and be the obvious target….

You sold me. R2D2 is The Man, wait errr The Droid!

Darth Vader…….since Star Wars is essentially Anakin's story, of his fall to the dark side and his ultimate redemption. Luke's only really important because he's Anakin's son.

There should be 3 choices not 2.
Anakin
Darth Vader
Luke
Then I would vote Vader.
The only good part of the last three movies was when Obi Wan
cut Anakin's arms and legs off in the last few minutes.I wish he could have shut him up some how cause he still laid there and whined.