"Star Wars GASLIGHT / Stargrunt" Topic

In another thread, John Leahy asked me to post about my experience of using GASLIGHT for Star Wars and, rather than hijack a thread about using Stargrunt for Star Wars, I thought I'd start a new one!

At this point, I have only had the chance to play through a couple of turns, but I wanted to respond before I forgot entirely.

The game I'm currently playing has the following forces. Note: I mix time periods, so look away if you are offended by such things!:

Imperial
3 squads of Stormtroopers led by characters
1 squad of Sith Troopers led by a character
1 AT-ST
1 Speeder Bike
1 Dark Jedi
1 Dark Jedi Adept
1 E-Web repeating blaster with crew
Darth Vader

Rebel
3 squads of Rebel Troopers led by characters
1 squad of Battle Droids
3 Viper war droids
1 Assasin droid
2 swoop bikes
Han Solo

The scenario is that a droid manufacturing world has allied with the rebellion and the Imperials have sent a force to teach them a lesson. Simple!

It has taken quite a bit to stat up all the weapons and figures but when using rules for one genre with another that is to be expected. The only area which needs a lot of work in my opinion came to light when I first rolled a critical hit on a vehicle. Although the tables largely work, they certainly have a 'steam powered' feel to them for obvious reasons. I think I will instead develop individual critical hit tables for each vehicle. That would be the ideal from my perspective.

The other main change I am making was suggested on a thread elsewhere. I am ignoring start rolls for vehicles and also ignoring sustain rolls except when the vehicle is moving though rough terrain. I also allow extras a saving throw when they are wearing armour, or if they are droids.

So, mechanically everything is going to plan so far. But what has it been like to play?

Having played SW games using Stargrunt in the past, I find they make for a very good game. In fact SG is my preferred 28mm Sci-fi rules without a doubt. I also like the more ‘gritty' feel they give to my Star Wars games. I have found the rebels have a tough time against well armoured stormtroopers with blaster rifles and I refuse to make the stormtroopers worse than average quality as this really makes no sense in my opinion, no matter how badly they shoot in the films. But I digress…. I should be saying that GASLIGHT so far has proven to be an absolute joy to play! I have been able to chuck my troops onto the table without worrying about command structure or fitting various weapons and strange aliens into a ‘realistic' rule set. It has been so easy to get a game running with various vehicles and infantry types in play at the same time.

I guess my point is the difference in how the games feel. When I play Stargrunt I feel like I have to use proper tactics and planning in order to achieve victory and a simple addition like one side having a tank or walker suddenly poses a whole new set of strategic issues to think about. Now, this is a very good thing and part of why I love Stargrunt, but using GASLIGHT for Star Wars so far has just been a bucket load of FUN! It has made me feel like a kid again watching Star Wars for the first time and my brain is buzzing with the possibilities of all the things I can add, like proper Jedi powers and new vehicles and aliens.

I think this is actually quite an important think to mention as, in terms of mechanics, I would probably argue that Stargrunt is the better rule set. But one thing that comes across so strongly in people's battle reports after games of GASLIGHT is just how much fun and full of character the games were. Adding this to the Star Wars setting is a winning combination in my book.

[Note: I have not spent too much time discussing the rules as I have not completed the game yet, but I may post afterward if there was anything specifically that was good, or a problem. This post is really to reflect my first impressions of GASLIGHT and compare to the feel of Stargrunt when playing Star Wars games.]

I appreciate you doing this. Like I said in the Stargrunt thread, I believe Gaslight would be a good fit for Star Wars. It would boil down to the stats and rating up Jedi Powers and vehicles. So, if you decide to post what you have done somewhere or simply email a copy that would be great!

Thanks,

John

I'll give you a game in a couple of weeks Chris! If it gives you more chance of winning, I'm all for that!!! Ha! Ha! Only joking

John: Sure, I'd be happy to do that. It may take a while to collate all my notes and make them electronic, but it is something I intend to do anyway.

Brummie Lad: Bring it on, mate. Haha. It will actually be good for a Tue evening at the club. A pretty light and fun way to spend a few hours after work! Email me a list of vehicles you have and I'll stat them up! :)

Add a Stormtrooper Effect rule: The more figures in a squad, the lower their Shoot skill.

Chris, will do.

Pedrobear: Or, the more Stormtroopers you're shooting at, the easier they are to hit!! lol

It is an interesting issue really. In 'reality', stormtroopers are supposed to be good shots due to their training, but they never hit our heroes in the film.

I see this as being the same reason that Nazis never (well, hardly ever) manage to shoot Indiana Jones. It isn't that actual Nazi soldiers could not hit their targets, but that the 'film reality' demands that they can't hit the heroes.

So you basically have a choice. Do you wish to depict the bad guys in your game as they 'really' are, or do you want to depict them as they are when they try and fight the heroes in the film.

Personally I prefer to depict them more 'realistically'. This is mainly becasue stormtroopers manage to shoot rebel troopers just fine at Hoth and also when attacking the Tantive IV.

But also, by giving the Rebel heroes in GASLIGHT a good save, you are basically able to reflect how your typical soldier never manages to hit them. In this way, GASLIGHT can capture the best of both.

I like the Forge of War method. For example, you can use Lightsaber Defence. For example, Luke has a Command Value (CV) of 9, Stormtroopers have a CV of 7. The difference (2) is the number of hits that he can ignore. Which is nice!

Definitely agree with the "realistic" aspect though!!!

I mentioned to Buck a few years ago that Gaslight should have abilities that could be tied in with regular units. That would provide more flavor for the game. The thing I love about Gaslight is that you can fight EXTREMELY large battles with it. Since my main focus is on the clone Wars using a set that would handle 400 or so figs would be excellent!

Thanks,

John

Oh I don't know, in modern combat (1983 to 2002) I fired thousands of rounds at the enemy and as best as I could tell only killed or hit about 50. There is a study on the net somewhere where it talks about number of rounds fired vs number of hits. The numbers are very hit. Those I shot were at a range less then 50 yards for the most part.

VR
James Mattes

James

A fair and valid point! I guess the issue is more that stormtroopers and similar should really have the same chance of hitting as normal soldiers and that their apparent inefficiency at doing so is due to the demands of the genre.

Thanks for sharing your real life experience.

Stormies were pretty effective cracking open the Tantive IV and shooting down the resistance in the hallways there. They also made pretty short work of the ice base on Hoth once their walkers dropped 'em off. If you weren't a named character, you had a good chance of buying it if stormtroopers were aiming for you.

I've always thought that GASLIGHT would be a natural for Star Wars -- at least the first three, original, good movies. :)

Chris said: "It has taken quite a bit to stat up all the weapons and figures but when using rules for one genre with another that is to be expected."

Yes, I'm sure that's true. I have built a spread sheet and Word document that you can use to build your heroes and units in Excel and then mail merge the record cards. If you'd like to try them out -- and know a little something about mail merging -- send me a note at surdu@acm.org.

Chris also said: "The only area which needs a lot of work in my opinion came to light when I first rolled a critical hit on a vehicle. Although the tables largely work, they certainly have a 'steam powered' feel to them for obvious reasons. I think I will instead develop individual critical hit tables for each vehicle. That would be the ideal from my perspective."

Yes, that makes perfect sense. The GASLIGHT damage tables were meant to have few catastrophic deaths. As an indicator of what we were aiming for, note that the Monitor and Merrimack battled for a long time and neither was sunk. Vehicles get destroyed in GASLIGHT, but more often they get beaten down gradually, losing armor, a weapon, or some crew along the way. This is the right feel for VSF. For science fiction, you'll definatley want something faster and more dramatic!

Chris went on to say: "The other main change I am making was suggested on a thread elsewhere. I am ignoring start rolls for vehicles and also ignoring sustain rolls except when the vehicle is moving though rough terrain. I also allow extras a saving throw when they are wearing armour, or if they are droids."

Certainly. Start and Sustain rolls were meant to reflect finicky, steam-powered technology. Everything in Star Wars seems to work well except that one robot that breaks right after Uncle Owen buys it from the Jawas and the hyper drive in the Falcon. Thinking about it, you might want a Start number for the Falcon's hyper drive! :)

Finally, I'm not sure sure that GASLIGHT is as tactics empty as Chris implies. I find that good tactics are rewarded in GASLIGHT; although, admittedly, good luck and good Main Characters can sometimes protect players from bad tactics.

Buck

Get you copy of The GASLIGHT Compendium today! :)

Hi Buck

Thanks for your response! I'll drop you an email about the spreadsheet!

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to suggest that GASLIGHT was 'tactics empty' at all! I just meant to indicate that it was different from Stargrunt, which a lot of people (including ex-military) specifically say rewards the player's use of real world army tactics.

So different tactics to suit the game! GASLIGHT definitely has more than those "line them up and march them forwards" games!

Chris

I took no umbrage with your comments, Chris. I think what you're doing is very interesting. I hope to hear more as you continue.

I sent the files to your Email address.

Buck

Hi Buck

I didn't think you had really, just wanted to make sure! :)

Thanks for the files, look very useful indeed!

Chris

I know I would be very interested in seeing how you stat out the troops and characters. Please share when you're finished.

Kelroy: Sure! It might take a while before I have something I'm happy with, but I'd be happy to share.

Chris, there is a files section in the GALIGHTrules Yahoo group where you could post your stats when you are done to share with all interested parties.

Buck

Thanks, Buck. I'll do that!

I'm still some way off getting there. The basic game is going well, so next I want to work on abilities and force powers. Then vehicle critical hits. I should have something to post as a work in progress during the upcoming week.