"Post-Apocalyptic Cell/Comm towers" Topic

I am pondering a faction in my Post-Apocalyptic games who specialize in building Communications networks. Diggers build towers/repeater stations/server farms in hard to get to concealed locations.

1st off appropriate 15mm figures, I don't have any good idea, or should we say finished ideas. Considering 2 or 3 troops with simular number of bots.

2nd, Towers, the odd package on top of a lone telephone pole ore High voltage transmission towers or other suitable construction.

3rd, is remote concealed stations of mini modular servers or transmission stations.

Those are the ideas with a broad brush, was hoping for help with specific ideas….

Are you looking for ideas of how to build these comms relay stations for terrain or shared ideas for the gang/process?

First and foremost would be power.

How will these remote stations be powered? Solar is an option but requires some quarterly-annual maintenance.

Perhaps hydro-power is an option if there are sources of free running water?

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Use one of the known communication company names/icons for the tech gang…

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Then beyond the incompatibility of the various types of technology there will be issues of alignment and preventive maintenance.

So it sounds like these comms stations will need to be manned…a 1-3 man unit of techs/operators in an area that provides some measure of natural power…hydro, geo, wind, etc.

Looking for what they should look like to get the idea across…

Some of the power issues will be things like solar cells or RTGs buried at the base or turbines… Great questions BTW… All of the above i think, gonna look around for suitable bits in the collection.

I love the naming/gang patch idea. I completely missed it.

link

BME that is an idea, was thinking and pondering terrain more.

An idea is a concrete pylon with a small station on top…. As a way station.

Info…I have been a professional communications tech for most of my adult life…here are a couple small remote/repeaters (taking a signal and passing in along, usually with LOS line of sight issues where trees, mountains, buildings, or the horizon breaks the path of the signal)

and this one…I find this to be the money shot…this pic sums up a complete small comms station…maybe a tech gang HQ and center for the comms web?

As for as tech I would consider converted solar charged cel phones…it is a game after all, but even so this is manageable and within technical reach.

Bingo those help, at my closest I have a end user of police radios and military comms trailers. And to be honest I didn't pay that much attention.

The idea is futuristic linemen working in the emptys of a broken future crossed with HAMS. Appearing as objectives or a distant call for help.

Our talks about professions of the PA settings has got me thinking.

There are a lot of things you could do really for this. You might want to look at some HO Scale models too, they have complete sets of towers for around $20. USD

If I had a tech gang I would consider this for the icon

Our talks about professions of the PA settings has got me thinking.

Tell me more.

I mean, a lot depends on the apocalypse that lead to the post-apocalyptic era in question, but there's definitely some meat to chew on with this topic. (See also: World War Z.)

Another fun bit is that once one tech is available there would be competition…so skirmishes, thefts, sabotage, etc. of existing equipment.

Nerd wars

I'm working on a similar project. I'm also a former radio engineer.

Towers can come in all shapes and forms. Ham guys just string wire in a tree. Cell towers usually have some small antennas. So bits of brass wire work for those.

FM antennas are cool.

link

Jampro makes a ton of antennas so check their site for inspiration.

Shivley is another company

shively.com

I am trying to remember who makes the really cool ones. They are a twisted design that sits off the tower. We used them for both our sites. Looks like a rototiller blade almost.

You can also think about various dishes for side mounting. Usually the transmission antenna is higher up but you also need to get signals in and out of the site. So you can have microwave dishes about mid way down the tower. These are pointed horizontally and are the ones that look like a mesh of bars. Sometimes they cover them for snow and ice reasons. Then they have a rubber like case stretched over them.

Another type of common antenna is satellite. These are usually rather large and pointed above the horizon 30 degrees or so. The big ones and mounted on the ground outside the shack. Sometimes you can have small ones on the tower or the building. Common sizes are 3m to 1.2m in diameter.

If you build a shack then you might want to add a raceway between it and the tower. If it is a short tower then the building can be integrated but the big ones have elevated cable tracks that hold the transmission lines. these range from 1/4" for microwave to 6 or 8" for TV. Depends on power. The small ones are flex but the big ones are hollow copper tubes.

Probably more info then you wanted but I hope it gives you some inspiration.

Old Crow do Etched brass comms towers in various shapes and sizes.

John T

Jonathan what part of Florida? I am a native born Floridian stuck in Texas.

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A gaming approach, accepting that the tech is not all that easy if ever compatible, would be to allow for a Professor Roy Hinkley sort of cobble project…any radio transmitter that could be made to connect cel phones, car stereos, and other receivers together.

It does not make real world sense but it would open the door for regular Joe's who are putting together and playing games to create and operate communication equipment.

Keeping it all real world is still completely possible but a bit easier if those of us who know the reality of it all sort of look away, just look away.

It is for a game after all.

@28mmMan I'm native born Ohio but stuck in Pensacola for the foreseeable future.

Oh and I forgot Generators! Most big important sites will have generators. Modern ones look like boxes and are usually on some sort of steel mount to get them off the ground. Scifi/post apoc can be anything from an old truck to a herd of enslaved hamsters.

Lol I went to High School in P'cola.

Generators of some sort makes sense…an old vehicle on blocks makes more sense.

Lets just say that I memorized the key codes for my old job. In case of Zombie Apocalypse…. Its remote with farmland all around and I have access to a 95k watt transmitter to start my own anti-zombie resistance movement :)

@28mmMan If your ever back in town look our group up. We primarily game at Bobe's Hobby House on W street.

Bob at Bobe's got me started in 1976, when I was 11, with the three little book from D&D.

We played with a local gaming club, 30-35 members, in the meeting room at Cordova Mall.

With the towers I am kinda looking at something more robust than your standard railway model. But the idea and sentiment is gratefully excepted as ideas towards the cause.

Currently I am planning on 2 or three smallist remote installations based on the Pictures provided by 28. Thanks those give me lots to grind with.

As for the outpost, the only thing I have decided on is it needs to fit on a CD sized base.

As for the work gang…. Still figuring out what they should look like.

Info…look for a broken piece of electronics like a DVD or VCR.

A screw driver, cutters, and pliers…you will end up with piles of useful bits and pieces that will lend well to your project.

And once you start breaking down the pieces you will find hundreds of small interconnective bits with odd shapes, tiny screws, little gears/cogs, dozens of springs, belts, rollers, and more that escape your view at first. Layers upon layers of pieces that pivot on pins and hinges…in other words one afternoon will provide you literally pounds of useful bits, pieces, parts, and other greebles.

Holy crap. Thanks, you've just made my plans for this evening. Although the wife would have preferred that I just throw out the old VCR in the basement, at least breaking it up for bits will mean it'll take less space in the basement?

Scorpio you will be amazed with the end results.

Be prepared to break a few pieces to release others. I have a lifetime of experience breaking down electronics and I have a significant collection of tools…I still found sections that were pressed or compressed into service that do not want to be released. Just trust me, save your fingers, when you find a piece that is unusually resistant then break it.

And a final note be very careful around the pressed sheet metal pieces as the edges are very sharp and will cut you with extreme prejudice.

Lay out the VCR on a light colored towel to work on. This will prevent the small useful bits from flying away and rolling off the table.

And have a couple small containers to separate the springs, screws, etc. This will save you time and grief.

I would have at least 3 separate containers, but 5-6 would be useful.

Great googly-moogly, how does he *drive*? I mean, all those radios have to suck his alternator dry, shutting the engine down!

Here's my question: what does comms do for the gang? How do they keep themselves fed, etc?

The constant draw for the type of radios he has is around 0.1-.05amps in receive and 5-6amps during transmit, when the key is pressed down which is one at a time.

Most likely the truck has dual batteries and dual alternators.

I installed dozens for our fleet of vehicles while in the military.

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As for how to make a living or barter value for a comms/tech gang/team/unit…easy enough, services rendered towards providing long range, remote, and related communications for a community.

Information that travels instantly has a significant value for security, emergency services, leadership, and even basic connection has a worth.

The guys in the high tower watching 15-22 miles of terrain noting where the game/herds are located, vehicle traffic, smoke/fires, lights/camp fires at night, hordes of zombies, packs of dogs, etc.

As well as providing communication for general use.

Not the sort of carrot that requires a community to feed them like a bunch of gun bunnies but certainly they provide a value much like a ferry boat or the like.

What 28 said. The workgang is just going about their business, exploiting the resources that are available… In their case Telecomm gear.

Info…I will name my tech-gang to compete with yours…

Raytheon Remote Controllers!

Here we see three of my troubleshooters getting ready to remove some rival techs who made the mistake of climbing one of our towers…time for some preventive maintenance!

The weapons are long range tasers that are battery operated with a hand crank recharger!

Giggle….

For a sense of complete authenticity include a lightning arrestor (rake, radial, or bottle brush)

bottle brush style (the most effective, offering thousands of points of contact)

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A power source

hyrdo

solar

wind

geothermal

or preferably a combo of several

Don't forget the viable option of mobile communications

grrrr now I have to make a mobile microwave or sat truck… I think I have an idea of what to use for it as well. Might be cool to magnetize the tower so I can use it deployed or not.

I have my other comm tower almost done. I hope to get pictures of it up soon. I used a few electronics bits to make various antennas and such. I also made a quick sat dish from a #8 finish washer with an LED inside it. I'm also using a small transformer as an external generator. I also want to do a larger standalone Sat dish.

Now that os a good idea, magnets on more delicate bits.

Indeed, magnets or pegs. That way the vehicle or any vehicle could second as a comms van/truck.

The function of making a living:

in zombie games…the comms group sets up remote sirens on a tower which is hanging over a deep pit…once the guys watching at a distance see the pit is full they push the button and ignite the small thermo bomb/grenade/fuse that sets the zombies on fire.

Rat Patrol!

Ok the question raises, how much bandwidth can the smallest of repeaters handle?

I am looking at duplex voice and simple BBS style internet….

Voice and limited data can be done over shortwave. That give you massive distance and simple antenna/transmitter.

The problem with shortwave is to get good signal the antennas need to be rather long but it can just be a simple wire in a tree or stretch across the roof of a building.

Example: link

That one is 50 foot long and designed for shortwave.

Even simple handheld stuff can do some data if the need arises. Not all radios are equipped to handle it but you could always put a mic on a modem or something :)

I know during disasters that HAM operators can also setup small repeater stations. These are one man jobs. They have preloaded packs with equipment and camping stuff. They have prearranged locations that create a solid network around the area of the disaster. Katrina is a good example of that.

So really you can have your full Comm station, mobile units, and solo camp sites. All of those situations will probably occur in a post apocalyptic world.

Info info info…you are stepping into the real world and thus disappointment :)

If it were me, for gaming aspects I would use simple terms like radio, transmitter, receiver, antenna, tower, wattage/power, and the danger word of frequency left to channels rather then actual frequencies because…

I would consider the art of the jury-rig and TV/movie physics/mechanics…any transmitter can be made to send a signal through any antenna to any receiver…with a margin of error and reduced value based upon initial difference/incompatibility.

The reality is that some antennas are meant for whole length radiation (think a 360* light bar) and others radiate only from the tip (think a flashlight or light house)…the length/height is a concern…and then it just starts getting ugly with reflected power, dB (logarithmic decibels), ratios, etc…formulas…ehhh I have been doing this all my adult life since 1983 and it still is daunting with variety and complexity.

Accept the potential of basics…transmit, receive, power, range, channels, and maybe a touch of cryptology (my specialty) which allows for a signal complexity that can only be simplified or made legible with a special key (in gaming terms think of a crypto machine as a little black box).

Though a simple form of crypto was used by the US/code talkers…using a rare language to allow only those that can speak the language to understand/translate…the use of extremely rare languages like Navajo makes it unlikely to be broken.

A funny touch would be to have Klingon speakers as your code talkers :)

There are some real terms that can be applied to the gaming setting without getting to complex, if if used out of exact context.

Band pass filters…do as the words say, allow a certain band to pass while restricting others…in a simple game term you could establish a duplex signal with a complex static as the second signal…a band pass filter on the receiver could restrict the static and thus allow the signal to come through.

Instead of static it could be a radio program, music, etc.

A sense of reality could make some sense with antennas…a dish is directional, point and shoot like a camera…tall towers/antennas (normally a tower has antennas on it…if a tower is hot or being used as the antenna then it needs to be insulated from the ground) would increase range (the higher the tower the further the signal could travel…the curve of the Earth…in reality some signals like AM and UHF bounce but that is another kettle of fish…I would stick with higher equals further for a game setting)…power/wattage equals signal strength (think of it as about pistol/rifle caliber).

With that last thought of weapon caliber, that is a good reference to frequency. Comparing frequencies for compatibility is like using various rounds with different guns…just call it frequency/channels and let it be :)

Sorry to go off track but that is the reality of the subject, it is complex beyond reason without some training/experience and then it is still complex but manageable.

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All the above just points to my original point…stick with basic terms and allow TV/movie mechanics to apply.

If you are asking which is the most logical real world radio band to work with IMO it would be VHF (very high frequency). It is used for many industrial, commercial, civil, and military purposes. It is LOS or line of sight communications; 6-20 miles without a repeater. This is managed with lower power outputs…handheld radio is low power, vehicle/bench mounted is usually restricted to 20-25w, and some base stations may use up to 60-65w (w=watts/power is like considering the strength of a voice…1w is the volume one uses to talk to someone standing next to you, 15-20w is talking across the room, and 25w+ is shouting like at a sporting event)…VHF radios are used in vehicles, boats, and open areas like factories.

But VHF is in reality a short range system; I have gotten 40+mi without a repeater but that is over ocean/flat.

A repeater basically receives the signal at a set wattage 1-20w and then retransmits through a tall tower with a huge increase of power…75-120w.

This increase of power and height would defeat LOS blocks like buildings, trees, etc.

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Ham radio on the other hand is not easy…not by any measure.

It is effective and using fellow operators this signal can transmit over vast distance.

But while anyone can select a VHF channel and push PTT (push to talk) on the mic and talk…

…the same is unlikely for Ham systems which can be quite daunting.

Very different animals.

But in gaming terms I would consider both completely viable with the Ham system being long range and VHF being short range, but compatible (in gaming terms).

Found a vehicle for my tech squad

Comms package included!

Ok, I think I can figure it out….

Meaning fake it…..

While I own a certificate in Electronics earned 25 years ago, I never really cared enough to pursue it as a detailed career (like combat and fast boats too much). And as an adult the spectrum set of equations is filled with what a Satellite can perceive, but the direct comms part of it all that is somebody else's job. Post processing is where I shine (have used Photoshop to Geocode visible and IR spectrum data).

So I do know relatively small stations can suck a lot of data.

Ideas are percolating….