"Historicon 2012 - don't bother" Topic

>>>>But to feel "betrayed" and spit on?

It's a bit strong considering the eccentricity of the hobby in general.

DM

Don

It is easy to lose money on a NY con. I think at the time I noted that we had typically HMGS admission prices and typically New York expenses.

Carlos, LIG, it is all very well to object to having a convention in Virginia where I started the HMGS convention program. To conclude that it is an insidious plot against yankees is a paranoid delusion. And the idea that this is the culmination of a long running plot to thwart yankees on the part of the current BOD….well, that indicates that the paranoid delusion is no longer neurotic and has become psychotic.

There has been a long running discussion on where to have HISTORICON 2012 on the HMGS (formerly EAST) forum as well as on TMP among other places. The pros and cons of York, VFCC, the HOST, Hampton Roads, and Fredericksburg were endlessly and openly debated. The IKE has even reared it ugly head.

York shouldn't have been on the list to begin with. Damn place doesn't have sleeping rooms within a mile and half or so. In case you missed it, we were lucky to get into VFCC this year before it turns into a casino. And, even if you overlook the fact that James would probably rather go to Hell than the HOST, it is booked for July for the foreseable future and has lost some much needed parking to slum clearance. Hampton Roads would probably have offered a better deal, but it is harder to get to than Fredericksburg. Honest. The Ike is smaller, arranged worse, and more expensive than the HOST.

Although it is more convenient for me, I had serious misgivings about Fredericksburg. I used to work in Northern VA but the traffic situation has become worse since I retired many years ago. In the past several years I've found gridlock trying to get off the DC Beltway and onto Rt. 95 South to Fredericksburg (or, in my case, Florida.)I have no idea why all those crazy people are trying to go south on I-95 late Sunday afternoon. Knowing something of the area, I've looped off onto the GW Parkway, driven to Ft. Belvoir, picked up Rt. 1 there, and gone down near Fredericksburg before picking up I-95 again. That, or camping with one or another of the kids until mid-morning Monday.

However, their are routes and times of day (or night)which minimize Northern VA. At least enough to make the driving little worse than King of Prussia.

So, objectively, it has been looking more and more like Fredericksburg for months.

What of the diabolical clique willing to go to any lengths to inflict a Virginia convention on LIG and Carlos? Well, three are indeed from Virginia(Boo! Hiss!). Three are from New Jersey. And the President is from Gettysburg PA.

In the last few days I've been critical (on the HMGS forum) of the hotel contracts. So much so that one BOD member has e-mailed me telling me that my rotten attitude has been responsible for most of the fear and mistrust in HMGS.

How about that Carlos and LIG? You weren't even in the running!

But lets forget the paranoid delusions. The BOD is relatviely new, many are clueless about convention management. They can't get into the last two places HISTORICON has been held. They have no director or convention committee.

They have made a good faith effort to pick the best of a bad lot.

I hope it works. And barring catastrophes of one sort or another, I'll be there.

Pat Condray, WKPP

PS: My wife has been telling me that I'm being a wimp about Northern Virginia traffic. Do not my own sons negotiate it every day?

I admire their efforts. But I'm glad I'm outta there.

Carlos, LIG, it is all very well to object to having a convention in Virginia where I started the HMGS convention program. To conclude that it is an insidious plot against yankees is a paranoid delusion. And the idea that this is the culmination of a long running plot to thwart yankees on the part of the current BOD….well, that indicates that the paranoid delusion is no longer neurotic and has become psychotic.

Pat, facts speak for themselves. Timonium (sp?), BCC and now FCC. The big mistake was thinking once Mr. Panzari was gone the threat of the "Next Level" mentality was gone. Nothing could be further from the truth.

What of the diabolical clique willing to go to any lengths to inflict a Virginia convention on LIG and Carlos? Well, three are indeed from Virginia(Boo! Hiss!). Three are from New Jersey. And the President is from Gettysburg PA.

One can't help but wonder if their geographical location played into this.

I've never been one to sit down and take things as they come. To say "the poor little BoD" is simply baloney. When people make bad decisions, there are ramifications. Will I call the BoD to the carpet on this? Yes. Will the people from the southern regions think I'm wrong? Yes – and I can respect that. Some will do what they can to support Historicon, some think the BoD has gone too far and will look for alternatives. Frankly, I don't think either are wrong.

Do I think HCon 2012 will bomb – yes. Will I feel bad – nope. The BoD made their own darn bed – starting with the Panzari regime. Some on the BoD though it was OK to "abstain". Again, baloney.

How about that Carlos and LIG? You weren't even in the running!

I'm sure that'll change ;)

But lets forget the paranoid delusions. The BOD is relatviely new, many are clueless about convention management. They can't get into the last two places HISTORICON has been held. They have no director or convention committee.
They have made a good faith effort to pick the best of a bad lot.

Pat, we'll agree to disagree. When you make excuses for them, you're giving them the green light to fail. You're trying to say that anyone within HMGS that has experience isn't willing to help if they ask? If you don't know – ask. If you still don't know – bring in a consultant.

So much so that one BOD member has e-mailed me telling me that my rotten attitude has been responsible for most of the fear and mistrust in HMGS.

You just proved my point. Frankly, I'm disgusted with their attitudes. So much so that I've decided that I'll attend one convention a year and not have to deal with HMGS (Ok – I can hear the sighs of happiness from the some of the people now.) Now let me clarify – do I personally hate these people? No. I hate their attitudes. You can say they're trying their best – but this isn't kindergarten. You don't get a cute gold star for trying. Reality is a harsh taskmaster. Do, or do not – there is no try.

OK the current BOD

Maybe you know something I don't(and I'm being serious here) but how many of them were on the Panzeri/BCC board?

Once the Host was lost as a venue(and that happened the second we left) all we had was the VFCC.No one could stop the VFCC becoming a casino so we lost it.There are no alternatives in PA or NJ(I've asked for the last couple months on numerous threads here and no one has come up with a answer)

So please explain how the current BOD is at fault for loosing the PA venues and what could they have done to keep Hcon in PA?

Not sure how many times you have dodged this question (maybe 4 or 5)and just keep insisting they are incompetent.

I'm not trying to be a d$#k but its like blaming the current US president for the Vietnam war.

Maybe you know something I don't(and I'm being serious here) but how many of them were on the Panzeri/BCC board?

Correct me if I'm wrong – and I might be…

"With that said and on behalf of the Election Committee and your Board of Directors, please join us in congratulating Frank Preziosa, Michelle Preziosa, Heather Blush, and John Drye on their re-election and election to serve on the board." – This was taken off the HMGS website. I know Heather was on the BoD during the BCC fiasco.

Once the Host was lost as a venue(and that happened the second we left) all we had was the VFCC.No one could stop the VFCC becoming a casino so we lost it.There are no alternatives in PA or NJ(I've asked for the last couple months on numerous threads here and no one has come up with a answer)

So please explain how the current BOD is at fault for loosing the PA venues and what could they have done to keep Hcon in PA?

From day one Orest was pushing Hamptons. He (and the BoD) should have been trying to work with the Host.

Not sure how many times you have dodged this question (maybe 4 or 5)and just keep insisting they are incompetent.

I'm not trying to be a d$#k but its like blaming the current US president for the Vietnam war.

You're not being a d**k – just asking a question to understand my current opinion of the BoD and HMGS in general. Honestly, I'm disgusted with the BoD and HMGS in general. I'm trying hard to temper my words so as not to offend those that want to have the con moved to FCC. For those that think moving the con to the FCC was a good thing, I salute you. I'm just not one of them. Some people will disagree with me saying I'm too harsh. If I'm wrong, time will tell.

OK

I went and looked at the board meeting for Jan 09
Heather and John were indeed on the board.John voted for the move and Heather abstained(wouldn't have done any good for her to vote against) Don Manser was alone in voting nay.
Frank and Michele were not on the board they were Cold Wars con staff so blaming them is pointless.

So looks like your beef should be with John Drye(he was VP so how did he not get any bad press?) not the whole current BOD.

Pat wrote>>>It is easy to lose money on a NY con. I think at the time I noted that we had typically HMGS admission prices and typically New York expenses.

I know. I was being facetious.

DM

LIG wrote: The big mistake was thinking once Mr. Panzari was gone the threat of the "Next Level" mentality was gone. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Never heard that sentiment once during this process and believe me I know exactly what it would sound like had I heard it. Next level would be Gaylord Resort, Philadelphia CC or a Manhattan hotel, not FCC.

They're making the best of a bad situation. Sadly it's not a good decision for everyone but I'm glad someone stepped up and did something. If they hadn't I'd have found something else to do as would the vendors. Life's too short brother.

DM

I went and looked at the board meeting for Jan 09
Heather and John were indeed on the board.John voted for the move and Heather abstained(wouldn't have done any good for her to vote against Don Manser was alone in voting nay).
Frank and Michele were not on the board they were Cold Wars con staff so blaming them is pointless.

So looks like your beef should be with John Drye(he was VP so how did he not get any bad press?) not the whole current BOD.

Ok – So Frank and Michele weren't on the BoD – HMGS is still stuck with Heather and John. Don I have the most respect for – he walked out on a situation that was uncorrectable. He walked out with his head held high. Sometimes a man needs to simply walk away when others knuckle under. Abstaining was probably the worst thing you could do. I'm sure she had her reasons, but there comes a time when you need to go on record as being either for or against something. The BCC was important enough to make a decision.

You do bring up a good point about John – maybe we should start calling him Slick ;)

But seriously, the deed is done. Time will tell how this all plays out. If I'm wrong, so be it. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. If I'm right, oh well. Either way I've already lost.

Life's too short bother.

Agreed.

As far as John Drye not getting any bad press, it cost him re-election to the BOD. I'm not sure it gets any more decisive or democratic.

DM

True but then he ends up right back on again.Guess people have short memories.

You know how the song goes….

"we won't get fooled again…" and I don't think he will.

DM

I was going to Historicon if the VFCC or Fredericksburg worked out but Hampton was a likely no and if York was 1.5 miles between hotel and venue, a absolute no.

I certainly prefer the drive up 81 to Lancaster over the drive up 85 to Fredericksburg since we go up early and have a nice day hiking in the Catoctins but the latter is probably about 4 hours shorter.

At no point did it appear there was a 'southern' push. The Host was unavailable to us in July, period. The VFCC simply had too little space post-casino conversion. That left the choice between York (awful), Hampton (worst drive possible) and Fredericksburg. As Pat says, the best of a bad situation.

The current BOD is the product of at least two and maybe three, post-BCC debacle/decision votes. I do not believe the total votes cast exceeded 300 in any of those elections. At this point, the BOD clearly does represent the wishes of the voting membership as every current member has been up for election post-debacle. I do not believe we have any unelected appointees at this time.

I'm fine with any decision to go/not go. We all have our own priorities but I would expect any disagreement to be expressed, politely, during membership meetings and during elections, not by wishing failure on a convention that our supporting dealers and fellow gamers should find profitable and enjoyable. The alternative would be to separate into squabbling little camps of narrow perceived interest and all experience smaller, poorer conventions with fewer dealers, fewer attendees and less fun, all in return for the illusory feeling that we got "our" way at the expense of the hobby..

There is one good thing to come of this. There are some smaller cons that will take traction now that HCon has become less available in the Northeast.

Due to limitations on how far I can drive (Physical) Lancaster was about as far as I can do (5hrs for me). Maybe it's already been addressed, but are there no viable places in Pa to the west of Lancaster and still be considered to be in "the East"? It seems that the location MUST be as close to the Atlantic as possible. There must be places in the Harrisburg area, afterall they hold the state farm show there or Hershey where I've heard other major conventions held? HMGS can there conventions where they like or where the majority likes, I will be diappointed not to be able to go, but that's life.
As a personal note, my favorite cons were those in Gettysburg…great athmosphere.

LIG wrote:

There is one good thing to come of this. There are some smaller cons that will take traction now that HCon has become less available in the Northeast.

Atta boy ! ; )

DM

>>>>As a personal note, my favorite cons were those in Gettysburg…great athmosphere.

I agree 100%. Low key, low stress, plenty of room to stroll around. Battlefield a plus. Looking forward to FCC for the same reasons.

DM

Pat Condray 24 Sep 2011 9:33 a.m. PST

……

Carlos, LIG, it is all very well to object to having a convention in Virginia where I started the HMGS convention program.

*NJH: I thought the concept started in Wally's Basement, in Maryland? I thought the first few gatherings in the HI under the yellow line were HMMC's? I also thought the first named "Historicon" was in New Carollton? I'd not normally ask these questions, but I have mislaid my copy of the Unexpurgated History of HMGS.

To conclude that it is an insidious plot against yankees is a paranoid delusion.

*NJH: Just because some HMGS Yankees may be paranoid doesn't mean the nefarious Secess forces aren't out to get them.

And the idea that this is the culmination of a long running plot to thwart yankees on the part of the current BOD….well, that indicates that the paranoid delusion is no longer neurotic and has become psychotic.

*NJH: This is a great conspiracy theory, could you elaborate more??

What of the diabolical clique willing to go to any lengths to inflict a Virginia convention on LIG and Carlos? Well, three are indeed from Virginia(Boo! Hiss!). Three are from New Jersey. And the President is from Gettysburg PA.

*NJH: Which means none of them are really Yankees.

In the last few days I've been critical (on the HMGS forum) of the hotel contracts. So much so that one BOD member has e-mailed me telling me that my rotten attitude has been responsible for most of the fear and mistrust in HMGS.

*NJH: And, how this is news?? ;-)

But lets forget the paranoid delusions. The BOD is relatviely new, many are clueless about convention management. They can't get into the last two places HISTORICON has been held. They have no director or convention committee.

*NJH: Steep learning curve ahead for them. Hope their efforts work to the benefit of as many as possible.

Cheers
Norris H.

Oh, for those who have never been to Fredricksburg. It's a nice little town.

You know that if Historicon had been in VA for 25 years and then someone wanted to move it to PA, many of the same arguments against the move would apply. In that case at least the move would be toward population density, but it is still foolish to move something away from its established base.

I agree with LIG on a lot of this. If the BOD is not consumed with arrogance then they need to take a look at their PR, because from here they appear to drip of it. A little humility would serve. For example, "we are up the creek without a paddle because of past bad decisions, and we don't really have a viable choice at this point, so we ask everyone to understand and help."

But there is never any of that. There was none following BCC, and let's be honest…if incompetence was an art form that one would be in the Louvre.

All of that said, at this moment in time I do believe that there was not a viable option. I still would have gone with the Host in August first, but it was never clear that this was an option. I do not know if there are other venues…I'd have been willing to cram into something smaller for a better location. But it is possible that there was simply nothing else that could be done now.

There is no question that this is the continued fallout from the BCC debacle. No one ever said where the "next level" was…now we know. Sub basement 3.

Even I will not fault the BOD for VFCC becoming a casino.

In an earlier post I mentioned how opaque the BOD's deliberations were -- I suspect that this is what leads to conspiracy theories.

How difficult would it be for the BOD to summarize what went into their decision for choosing Fredericksburg? I have not seen any detailed posts on the HMGS Yahoo Group to address this issue either. One one level the vast number of posts both there and on TMP regarding the HMGS conventions is so entertaining that reading them keeps me from watching Car 54 reruns, but I suspect that everyone's time could be better spent if there were less opportunity for controversy on account of the BODs opacity.

Is this lack of transparency meant to keep the volume of informed input from the membership at large to a minimum so the BOD can make decisions and then have plausible deniability?

I am not trying to be provocative nor do I wish to start another conspiracy theory -- I am really just curious to learn why the organization operates the way it does.

We all have our own priorities but I would expect any disagreement to be expressed, politely, during membership meetings and during elections, not by wishing failure on a convention that our supporting dealers and fellow gamers should find profitable and enjoyable. The alternative would be to separate into squabbling little camps of narrow perceived interest and all experience smaller, poorer conventions with fewer dealers, fewer attendees and less fun, all in return for the illusory feeling that we got "our" way at the expense of the hobby..

McK – I've been to a few of the membership meetings – they're a joke. If I went into a meeting with my boss with the level of preparedness the BoD shows, I'd be fired.

The BoD has gone beyond the point of a polite conversation. They are going to do whatever they please regardless of what you say. This is the main reason I've chosen to leave HMGS and focus on Cold Wars only. There are other conventions I'll attend that are not HMGS related.

My honest opinion – HMGS, as we see it today, has gotten too big for their own good. I really think splitting up would be the best for everyone involved.

I'd be more inclined to go. I'd turn it into a little vacation. I'd play some games, stomp around a "new" battlefield and then hit DC for a couple of days during the week.

let's be honest…if incompetence was an art form that one would be in the Louvre.

Ok – when I read that I darn near fell off my chair laughing. I gotta remember that!!

Never in the field of miniature gaming were so few so childish before so many.

Never in the field of miniature gaming were so few so childish before so many.

That is, until the self righteous Mitch Osborne decided to grace us with his presence. Please tell us, when you walk, do your feet touch the ground?

It never ceases to amaze me when people come to discussion boards to whine about people discussing an issue. Lol. It only takes one post to say we should all do as we are told without comment. Lol.

Here's a wild thought. If you don't want to discuss an issue…maybe don't post on a discussion board.

Norris

If you can't find your copy of the Unexpurgated History Volume I let me know and I'll send you the limited edition I sent members of the new BOD so that they would have some insight into their problems.

A convention program was discussed in theory at Wally's Basement along with a worldwide list of gamers and all kinds of other things. Our first convention activity involved handling miniatures for Atlanticon at ORIGINS 82. At the HMGS membership meeting during ORIGINS 82 I sought permission from the membership to launch the HMGS convention program. And launch it I did.

As you know, the original conventions were termed Historical Miniatures Mini-Conventions. They were deliberately off season so as not to interfere with our role in the multi-genre (or TGWAG) megacons in prime time, i.e. the summer.

I launched HISTORICON with the support of the old BOD in 1984 when our efforts to cooperate with ATLANTICON failed.The other member of the BOD when the decision was made was Unca Wally, and he was vacationing in England at the time.

Concerning the idea that going to the "Next Level" is a sin, it is not. Nor is it against the laws of God or man, let alone the ByLaws of HMGS Inc. to move out of state when you can't find a suitable location in PA. Any more than it was to move to PA when we couldn't find suitable location (due to growth) in Maryland or Virginia. Depending on the deal offered, if the FCC had been around in 1987 we might never have moved to PA.

Some have complained that the failure of the BOD to discuss every step of their research and negotiations publicly, i.e. the "Lack of Transparency" is sinister. It is not necessarily so.

The pros and cons of the various options have been discussed to death endlessly not only on the HMGS forum but here on TMP. But the detailed negotiations were not, and should not have been open to public carping. That's not how business negotiations are done.

Why did we leave the HOST? Basically we outgrew it. When the BOD first sought overpriced lodgings at the VFCC in 2003 we had not. But in those days we had a backlog for dealers (we don't any more.)

But by 2008 not only the head count (over 3,600)but a number of features which consumed space were driving us to the limit. It was time to look more intensely for larger facilities.

As in 1987, the larger facilities were not necessarily available in the same state.

Frankly I would have opted for staying crowded if we couldn't do better than VFCC or BCC. But it wasn't my call. And while the amount of parking lost to slum clearance near the HOST is up for discussion, it was lost.

As someone mentioned, the FCC is not the "Next Level". Examples of the "Next Level" were offered including the Philadelphia convention center where ANDON lost $75,000 on ORIGINS 95, and the Gaylord, which, when I spent some quality time there during the Christmas Holidays, came across as the most overpriced and badly managed outfit it had ever been my pleasure to patronize.

Concerning the paranoid delusion about the BOD conspiring at all cost to thwart Carlos and LIG by moving out of the sacred soil of PA, you do need psychiatric help.

John Drye did indeed support the move to BCC. We needed more room. And BCC has it. Also, BCC has hosted two ORIGINS, and several years of GW Game Days. So it was not self evident that it was a disaster. But it had definite weaknesses that were exaggerated by having the deal negotiated by a guy in Indianapolis on pain meds. The worst problem for HM gamers is that it lacked convenient and free parking.

VFCC was great except that it was hellaciously overpriced and inconvenient. I enjoyed the two shows we had there, but only by refusing to admit that I was spending like a drunken sailor just to be there. It cost HMGS half again as much as the HOST. And it cost most of us who attended at least that much more.

The sinister clique that Carlos and LIG are accusing of betraying Pennsylvanians and New Jerseyites has, best I can tell, a President from Gettysburg PA. and three members from New Jersey. They looked at all the options they could find. They could have hired a hundred thousand consultants and not solved their problems.

They picked what seems to be the best of a bad lot.We won't know how badly they were taken advantage of by the FCC until the 2012 budget is posted in the files section of the forum early next year.

John Drye actually ran two HISTORICONs (in Pennsylvania), which is why I voted for him. He is not completely ignorant of how to run a convention that size. Nor did he try to move it to Virginia.

The only real complaint from Carlos and LIG seems to be that the BOD has forgotten the Prime Directive:

"Thou Shalt Not Move HISTORICON out of Pennsylvania!" In short, no criteria, price, convenience, even size matters as long as it stays in PA.

But children, the joke is on you. There is no such Prime Directive. As in 1987 we need a place with space (not so much anymore) that we can afford and that we can get to.

Nobody has found one in PA. Let's hope the one they've chosen works.

Pat Condray

Oh, for those who have never been to Fredricksburg. It's a nice little town.

I respectfully disagree.
– Ambrose Burnside, Major General USA (deceased)

LIG, gotta give you credit for chutzpah. I don't know many adults who would keep plugging away after throwing a full bore tempter tantrum that any three-year-old would be proud of.

And my feet not only touch the ground, the ground rejoices in it.

And my feet not only touch the ground, the ground rejoices in it.

Now you just keep looking in the mirror and telling yourself that sunshine.

LIG, gotta give you credit for chutzpah. I don't know many adults who would keep plugging away after throwing a full bore tempter tantrum that any three-year-old would be proud of.

Actually, there is a word for what you have done. It's called "Trolling". Don't worry though, Mitch, this is the last time I'll feed the Trolls.

Thank God.

Wait, I thought God was out to move Historicon?

Nah, God doesn't want Historicon in Virginia. God, as everyone knows, is a Texan. God wants Historicon in Austin.

Historicon is my favorite weekend of the year and I may be pathetic, but it is important to me. Therefore, irregardless of the location I will go and have fun. Since it is in a precarious situation this year I am going to make it a point to spend more money than usual and run a few games this year (which I have not done in a few years). I will do more than normal to help it survive/suceed. I hope others will do so as well. If there is a concerted effort to "prop it up", who knows, it might turn out better than locations past. The negative posts on this thread just make me more determined to heip it flourish.

Allen

God, as everyone knows, is a Texan. God wants Historicon in Austin.

Nope. Impossible. God is a Jets fan, therefore, he wants Historicon located on somewhere in Upstate New York.

I guess God will simply be horribly disappointed on all fronts, then! 8)=

I guess God will simply be horribly disappointed on all fronts, then! 8)=

I dunno, the Jets seem to be ding OK this year.

All you can do is just LAUGH at Conquistador Carlos and LIG.

They are such losers, and I hope they never show up at any gaming table I'm at. I'm thrilled they will never attend Historicon in Virginia.

Absolutely, Pathetic!
Eric

All you can do is just LAUGH at Conquistador Carlos and LIG.

That's what I like to see…. complete ignorance. You have all the class of an unflushed toilet.

They are such losers, and I hope they never show up at any gaming table I'm at.

Don't worry. The only table we'll see you at is the Playschool table. I promise I'll avoid it for you.

Nice one.

DinofBattle, if you ever run a game, I'll be sure to patronize it, if only to give you the absolute pleasure of my company. Though honestly, with an attitude like yours, I doubt I;d like you at my table either.

Why dont people start a NE Historicon chapter and run a con in the Boston to Albany corridor somewhere??

No doubt had the Internet been a factor in the early 80s you'd have had much the same kind of nonsense hurled at the HMGS founders. Cry babies! Why can't they just accept what Origins offers historical minis like good little soldiers! Why are they damaging the hobby with their actions?

By the way, the people who are getting attacked are ones who spend a lot of time running games and helping in other ways. So the next time you want to pat yourself on the back because you drive six hours every year from whatever southern origin, consider how many hours go into prepping and running 3 games.

Why dont people start a NE Historicon chapter and run a con in the Boston to Albany corridor somewhere??

Funny you should mention that. There are two cons that I think are going to start to become big. One is NJCon (we'll try to run some WAB games there). There is another con held in Lancaster during the summer – but I think that's a smaller board gaming convention.

Sorry to say I'm not going. Just a tad to far. I would have thought NJ would have been a good compromise for locations.

Best,
Richard

So the next time you want to pat yourself on the back because you drive six hours every year from whatever southern origin, consider how many hours go into prepping and running 3 games

Thank you Civil. Anyone that wants to contest the system is going to be made fun of. But in truth, look where these people come from – DinOfBattle comes from NC, Mitch Osborne comes from VA and Pat Condray comes from Florida. These are the people that are calling me all sorts of names – trying to make this personal. Is this the mentality we can expect at Historicon 2012? If you don't agree with the poor little BoD, then you're going to get blasted? Sad part is allot of people can see through all this.

Honestly, this is far from over. Over the next year this is going to heat up. I fully expect to see people trying to hit me on a personal level. It's just not going to work.

We pay X amount every year to be members of an organization which disregards the majority's opinion in favor of putting the con in the heart of the godamn CSA.

Ummm….if I may interject with some points of observation here:

1: Carlos…There hasn't been any "CSA" since 1865….So I am not sure what your expletive about that is all about. Perhaps you'd like to explain it to us. From face value you basically sound like you are saying "I don't like the South"…

2: Do you really need to use Gods name in vain?

3: How many people from other states also put in their money each year also? From what I can tell, your "dues" entitle you to no special privelages simply because of geographical demographics.

I live in Philly. I drive to Lancaster for CW, and that's about the limit of my patience. VFCC was great, and its a shame it can't be there, but I understand. The Host is unavailable. I understand. But this is a grand betrayal.

Okay so how is it a grand betrayal? Was there a vote of members to see where they wanted it? I don't think so. I think the BOD came up with a list of places and went for the one that could solve the issue "for this year", (at least). There is nothing (to the best of my knowledge), set in stone that says that this Fredericksburg deal is more than a one year thing. If it ends up sucking like a drunk prom date, then yeah, they'll probably move it again and there is a chance you might be able to drive to it, without testing the limits of your patience…
Speaking of…

Hmmm….According to Googlemaps, Philly to Lancaster is 72.8 miles one way. 1 hours and 31 minutes of driving. So, less than 75 miles and your patience reaches it's limit??? Wow..I've driven further than that just to get to work….

Sorry but HMGS can't help you with road rage or temper/patience related issues.

I'd rather there be no Historicon this year at all then give it to VA…

Want to tell us the reason behind this statement? I'm curious…

And I will make my opinion known, as I have a right to do, at the members' meeting at ColdWars.

And yes, you have the right to do so, and if you carry out your actions like you have posted, you will probably also have other people use THEIR rights to tell you to "Sierra Tango Foxtrot Uniform", and your actions will probably get you booted from the meeting and/or the con…

I'd really like to know your reasoning and thinking behind your statements that you have made. No emotions, no ranting, no name calling, or cursing…just an explanation…