"Scale Creep in 15mm" Topic

How much of a problem is scale creep with 15mm figures? On a scale of 0 (no problem) to 10 (crisis).

A bit. Maybe a 4? I don't find I have so much trouble mixing 15's from different manufacturers (in an army, not a unit) as I do 25/28's. But most all my armies in any scale are made up of more than one manufacturer, so I am pretty easy-going in that respect.

I DO have problems with Black Hat and Blood Dawn fantasy, which are much larger than anything else I have (Essex is kind of my 'baseline'). The BH & BD I have, I have designated for SoBaH skirmishing.

3 I just put them on different thickness of based and on different parts of the battlefield. Other then organizing no issue. 15mm true 15mm, 18mm Not an issue for me, but many of my older figures had been in retirment for some time, until they were lost.
VR
James Mattes

Depends.

I don't mind, as long as there are a sufficient number of figs to go with whichever size is produced.

I must admit to prefering the newer 18mm GZG releases to their smaller cousins, not so much due to their larger size (which adds a little bit to their appeal), but more due to their much superior pose sculpting and more realistic proportions.

Seems to stay fairly close within manufacturers. Minifig are close to other Minifig and Old Glory the same

7. If I wanted 18s or 20s, I'd buy 18s or 20s. I want 15s. Make 15s. Even some lines put out by the same company barely match because one sculptor is making 15s in 15, and another one is making 15s in 18.

3. I don't run into many issues.

yes, my collection is from 15 – 18mm, doen't bother me a lick. I posted many times men come in all sizes also, 5-6 to 6-4 generally. Equipment (guns mostly) do bother me and try not to vary much.

Rather than 15mm, I prefer 1/100 scale. Which works out as 16mm to eye, and 17mm to head, for most pre-20th century figs. However, no one seems to manufacture to this scale. 15mm figs tend to be either 15mm or 18mm.

I tried to cobble some AK47 forces together using 15mm from a few manufacturers- Rebel, PP, and Old Glory to name a few… they don't mix well on the same base, thats's for sure.

0, I'm not picky – and it would have to be more of a difference then that for me to mind.

Actually Mark at Scale Creep has a great analysis.

link

Bill

No problem really because now they are called 18mm.

Kind of like when 25mm turned into 28mm.

As a relative newcomer I haven't seen too much of an issue. I've got some Khurasan and Rebel figs and they seem to fit pretty well, especially when you take armor into consideration and the like.

M.

A 6 or a 7. It annoys me greatly as a frugal old-time gamer with large collections already.

We hates 18's! If you don't want to make 15's just make 20's already!!!

scale creep doesnt bother me at that scale… bobble heads vs real heads do.

I can have taller and smaller than normal ones but I hate mixing bobbleheads into the mix.

One range gives me real problems (even if it is Fantasy) so that one range rates a 7

For the rest of them – 4 covers it fine as I am a recent convert to this size and collect for skirmish games

Don't see scale creep as a problem overall but do have issues with it when it occurs within a range. Different manufacturers selling differing sizes you almost expect it but the same sculptor being all over the place in a single range come on. This is not aimed at just 15mm and recent ranges either, I recall buying 20mm WWII Brits in the 1980's which seemed to consist entirely of giants and midgets!

One of the bigger problems with 15s not being 15s is where they are seen with vehicles. Although the current ranges of '15mm' vehicles are being built to 1:100 scale (mainly because it's much easier to scale plans to 1:100 than decide what 15mm actually equates to as a scale) creeping a 15mm figure to 18mm causes it's own problems.

Now, you don't sculpt/cast a 15mm figure figure on its own. It always has a base. Thin or thick (and thicker bases make for easier casting and less casting defects) there is always a 1-2mm base, so your 15mm figure is now 16-17mm off the ground.

Secondly you don't use 15mm figures free standing on teh ground. You will (pretty much always) base them onto something. You can reduce the effect by using thin ply, but more commonly you are looking at 2-3mm MDF, card, plastic, so now your '15mm' figure is actually 18-21mm from the table… so looks taller than your vehicle (unless you are going to base that too).

Now, if you allow a little scale creep, your 15mm figure becomes 18mm and after based is potentially 23mm 'tall'!

And of course 18mm is already closer to 20mm than it is to 15mm. :-)

But as Allen isn't here to bring it up, the bigger problem does remain with over-proportioned figures (big heads, dwarf legs) and tree trunk sized weapons.

Geoff
quickrectionforce.co.uk
(15mm Freikorp) ;-)

An 18mm figure is 20% larger than a 15mm figure. Unlike 14Bore, my army has very few 6'4" privates, or at least not enough for a figure, unless a general. I no longer buy figures unseen because as far as I am concerned, those whom call 18mm 15mm are liars. So put me down as a 10.

"An 18mm figure is 20% larger than a 15mm figure. Unlike 14Bore, my army has very few 6'4" privates"

If 15mm is average, say 5'8", then 18mm would be 6'9" and a bit, not 6'4". A 20% increase in height is a 3/4 increase in weight, all else remaining the same. So if your average 15mm represents a man 5'8" and 160lbs an 18mm one would be 6'9" and 280lbs.

if your average 15mm represents a man 5'8" and 160lbs an 18mm one would be 6'9" and 280lbs.

The BMI of your 18mm figure is then 30, or officially obese: nhlbisupport.com/bmi

He's unlikely to be a soldier as he wouldn't pass the enlistment requirements:
PDF link

Could be a civilian though :-)

"The BMI of your 18mm figure is then 30, or officially obese"

Indeed, I was trying to estimate the weight of a typical gaming figure expanded to life size. One of the interesting things about how anatomy varies is very tall people do not look like short people expanded, they have relatively smaller heads, longer legs and narrower hips and shoulders, they are more gracile generally.

There are exceptions of course. I once had to appear in court as a witness and was sitting in the courtroom while another case was being arraigned. Two brothers who were the largest human beings I have seen in real life. At least seven feet tall and would have been thickset and muscular if they had been 5'5". The orange prison jumpsuit one was wearing fit him like tights, only came halfway down his forearms and could not be zipped shut across his chest.

I tend to like the 15mm at the eyes standard. Makes scale conversion really easy with 1mm = 1m. I tend to consider 15mm = 1/100 scale.

"I tend to like the 15mm at the eyes standard. Makes scale conversion really easy with 1mm = 1m. I tend to consider 15mm = 1/100 scale."

That would make overall height 16mm, at 1/100 that's 5'3", rather short, for males anyway. 1/100 would be more like 17mm, about 16mm if you insist on measuring to the eyes. One millimeter at this scale is about 4.5", the average difference in height between men and women so not inconsiderable.

When sculpting '15mm' figures for people I always ask what size the actually want – 15mm definitely means different things to different people!

My default is to work to 1/100th, and go for about a 17.5mm tall figure. Most customers want the extra detail available at that size more than they want 15mm of height.

I still dream of a day when 6mm, 15mm, 28mm, 32mmm etc are finally replaced with actual scales!

Soon, 15s will measure 28mm…

"I still dream of a day when 6mm, 15mm, 28mm, 32mmm etc are finally replaced with actual scales!"

But then we still have to wait for ALL manufacturers to produce models accurately to the purported scale!

"I still dream of a day when 6mm, 15mm, 28mm, 32mmm etc are finally replaced with actual scales!"

"But then we still have to wait for ALL manufacturers to produce models accurately to the purported scale!"

The millimeter-size designation was originally adopted because different manufacturers scale figures were different sizes. Hobbyists described the figures size in millimeters rather than relying on the inaccurate scale designations.

The millimeter size then became the sole scale designation when small manufacturers began making models specifically for the wargame hobby. Later the size-scale became confused when some manufacturers and reviewers began using the size as a measurement to the eyes rather than overall height. Add to this the propensity for figures built-up in epoxy to grow as they are sculpted and the heroic dimensions of fantasy characters and you get the scale morass we are currently in.

7/8

I can deal with "large" 15mm, but I am seriously annoyed by the tendency to have "official" 18mm miniatures. I can play around with infantry 18mm, giving them thinner bases, but 18mm cavalry are simply too big and tall to be part of my collection. There is a manufacturer (that I respect and from whom I buy) who made that decision, and I cannot fathom why he went all the way out to 18mm when he could have just scaled back a very little bit and market its product as a "large" 15mm.