"What glue for a rubber Lemax mat on spackled styrofoam?" Topic

Hi, folks. Anyone know what glue I should use to stick a LeMax Christmas Village mat to a piece of styrofoam which has been sealed with spackle? The styrofoam was first painted with watered-down PVA glue, then had a layer of spackle placed onto the PVA, then the spackle was painted with 2 coats of a mix of watered-down PVA and acrylic craft paint. I was thinking rubber cement might work but it seems like it is more for paper? Any ideas?

Why did you spackle the foam?

I read that spackling the foam helps protect it and provides texture.

I was just curious. Thanks.

I'm actually trying to figure out how to mount these onto mdf or plywood. The backs are very smooth.

No problem. I'm thinking that hitting the back of the mat with a coarse sandpaper will help make the adhsive work better. I found one source that says the mats are PVC, and then found a couple of sites for Weld-On Vinyl cement which sounds like it could work. It says "SUBSTRATE RECOMMENDATIONS
WELD-ON 1001 is formulated for bonding a wide variety of plastics such as vinyl, rigid and flexible, foamed
PVC, ABS and acrylic and non-plastics to themselves and each other. Does not bond styrene, butyrate,
polyolefins, and PTFE. WELD-ON 1001 is especially useful in bonding rigid or semi-rigid vinyl to aluminum,
glass, wood and other rigid materials."
link

It sounds like it could work for both of us.

Has anyone ever used this suff?

I have done quite a bit of this, and if you were just starting, I would say no glue, no PVA no Spackle, but use double-sided sticky tape straight onto the bare Styrofoam and press the Lemax mats down on that hard.

Assuming you do not want to start over, I suggest Liquid-Nails. It takes a very long time to cure, but does hold the mats down.

These mats change dimension quite a bit with time and changing temperatures. I used a patching Spackle to blend the joins between mats sections and such and this tends to crack as the mats contract. I am afraid even if well glued down to you under coatings, that your undercoating will peal away from the Styrofoam over time. The tape has last three years so far.

@DyeHard: Thanks very much for the info. It is very helpful. I have already done a lot of work on the top portion of the base so I think I'll try the Liquid Nails. Especially since that is available locally, and I have a day off tomorrow.

To help to set the mats into the glue, use lots of weight. I started out using gallon paint cans, but the pressure is not very even. Try sand bags or similar. They can be foamed over uneven terrain and still exert lots of pressure (they are heavy). I even used bags a lead shot for some smaller patches.

Also make sure you have a nice strong level work surface to lay the terrain board on while letting the glue to cure. One attempt I made on a slanted surface and the mat very slowly slid down slope over time.

It will take a very long time for the glue to setup. The center of a mat section much longer then the edge. Count on no less then 24 hours.

I found one source that says the mats are PVC

Depends on the mat. The ones that are molded (like brick) are PVC. The ones that have a texture adhered to the surface (like grass or spooky town) are polyester. Both of which are relatively easy to glue down (unlike say polypropylene).

Carpet tape will definitely work well enough. You will want to make sure to get the tape as close to the edges of the mat as possible (if they start to peel up, it won't stop). After that, use it to more or less brace spots in the middle as well as anchor points like the base of hills.

Since your foam is already sealed, I would likely look at 3M's Super 77 spray adhesive though. Sticks pretty much anything to anything else (spraying on naked foam is a bit touchy though due to the propellant…you can do it, you just will want to practice first). Sticks really quick as well compared to other adhesives (not contact cement fast…but much faster than construction adhesives like liquid nails.

Clamping sand bags are the best low dollar option. In a pinch, you can cover your project with a sheet of plastic and stack less than ideal bags of stuff on top. I used to wait till spring when I would have a few dozen bags of mulch and potting soil on hand for weighting down my terrain. Needed to put a protective barrier between the weight and the terrain though since they tended to have holes in the bags as well as moisture and what not.

I have since upgraded to vacuum bags. They conform to whatever shape you are working with and allow for pretty quick, even and constant pressure. Plus, I no longer need to mess with the weights and all of that.

Here is a link to a DIY vacuum bag solution for those who are handi-capable.

link

Thanks, Dyehard, and Scoutll.It sounds like this is going to be problematic. I need to glue the brick texture to the vertical walls of the foam, which are 1.5 inches high. It's going to be difficult to apply much pressure for the Liquid Nails. I wonder if I should take a look at the Super 77?

Don't suppose you have a picture?

When you are clamping to vertical surfaces – you can use culls (scraps of wood) to provide the clamping surface and then normal clamps to provide the pressure. A couple clamps will usually be enough.

And definitely take a look at Super 77.

Yes!

In my application I was doing cobblestone section as a ground cover. I know at least one gut tried and use the brick pattern for a wall covering on a building. They ship curled, and that really gave him a bad time. I found heat will help release the memory of the curl, a bit.

For a wall, I would still use the Liquid Nails as it has "body" actual gap filling thickness. The Super77 is really photo mount and works wonders a flat smooth clean surfaces, but I am skeptical about it in this job.

Another product to consider is a foaming urethane glue, like Gorilla Glue. Liquid Nails makes a similar product in a caulk-gun tube.

No matter your glue, for a vertical application, you will want to clamp it with some type of spring clamp. And use wood strips to even out the pressure. I find the wooden wedges sold a hardware store very useful (not just for leveling a door frame).

Thanks, guys.
I will try and get a picture up later today. What I'm making is a riser piece for a Garden of Morr (cemetary) for our Mordheim table. The piece is a solid block of white insulation foam measuring 15" x 17" x 1.5". It's mounted on a piece of 1/4" MDF pegboard. I don't have any clamps large enough for the purpose, but I do have a bnde of wooden shims. I may try gluing on the brck mat pieces, then applying the shims, and wrapping the outside with bungee cords.

The Super77 is really photo mount and works wonders a flat smooth clean surfaces, but I am skeptical about it in this job.

It was originally marketed for automotive interior customizers (and similar work) to bond vinyl fabrics to upholstery foam and then that foam to rigid panels for doors and dash boards. The crafters picked it up later on since a lot of what they do (bonding fabrics to floral foam) is quite similar.

I have been using it for a very long time and the only bond failures I have ever had were either my own fault (not removing all the saw dust from surfaces) or as a result of highly unusual environmental conditions (left a piece in the trunk of a black car on a hot day in Tuscon…the glue softened and gravity started to pull it away). Even in the case of the heat related failure though, I got the item inside and reclamped it. Once the glue returned to normal temperatures it was still bonded and remains stuck to this day.

I may try gluing on the brck mat pieces, then applying the shims, and wrapping the outside with bungee cords.

That will work as well. So will using something like a belt and then using the shims as wedges in order to create the required pressure. Lots of ways that you can cloodge together a band clamp to go all the way around your object.

Just pay careful attention at corners. Quite often as you tension around the outside of the object it can force the corners to buckle and pull away.

Thank you ScoutII

I had only used Super77 many years ago to construct a poster (photos and paper on foam-core) for a presentation.

With your knowledge and insight, I will have to give it a try in many more application.

I had only used Super77 many years ago to construct a poster (photos and paper on foam-core) for a presentation.

With your knowledge and insight, I will have to give it a try in many more application.

My things are speed, ease of use and durability. While the various construction adhesives work well enough – they are rather low on ease of use and speed. Yes, you can squeeze out a bead of Liquid Nails pretty quick, but than you have 90% of an unused tube to deal with and you have to smear it about so that you get a tight fit…and deal with squeeze out. Plus you normally have to clamp it for a day or so.

3M's spray adhesives are fast and easy to use (provided you have an area that you don't mind catching the overspray and fumes). Clamp time is generally a few minutes to an hour. When you are done applying glue to a small area, you just tip the can over to spray out the nozzle and you are good to go to store it till the next time you need some…be it the next day or the next year.

They do cost slightly more than the tube adhesives so if I am doing a lot of something (like laminating up several sheets of foam) the tube adhesives are more attractive, but even then I like certain 3M products since I can cut through them with my hotwire cutter.

Thanks, guys, very much for all of your help. I've learned a lot from this thread. I'm going to get some Super77 for the next build.