"WSS Papal States Army" Topic

I'm putting together a Papal States army for WSS and from what I know Pope Clement XI threw together an army because he feared Austria crushing him even if he did support them. There were some minor skirmishes but no real pitched battles.

Does anyone know any of the Generals for the Papal Army at this time? Or at least some hypothetical ones? (Perhaps some good Catholic generals that were not otherwise engaged at the time and could feasibly fight for his holiness?)

You may wish to search through the Vinkhuijzen collection under Italy. The Papal armies are listed, but you will have to enlarge the plates to read their proper label.

link

Further reading may note which of the Italian princelings were coerced to ally themselves with Rome.

Cardinal Hawkwood is not a bad name.

Cheers,

Cardinal Hawkwood is an excellent name.., some of his fine troops parade

I am more of a WAS man..War of the Austrian succession have a very complicated Italian focus..

Do you have No.7 Eighteenth Century Military Notes & Queries, PH? There's an article by Gian Carlo Boeri about the Pope's army in 1708-09.

It doesn't list the generals but the regiments are named (giving the names of noblemen). It also mentions that Francesco Farnese, Duke of Parma, asked for papal military help (some infantry and some dragoon companies to man fortresses) to help maintain his state's neutrality so at least that's one name.

I don't Andy. A friend of mine let me browse his copy of WSS Uniforms by CS Grant which had regimental info and colors. But thanks for the suggestions so far. I can't say I am familiar with Cardinal Hawkwood.

I also think Johann Matthias von der Schulenburg might have aligned himself with the Papal States. Any thoughts on that?

I'll be back… later today as I'm just off to work. (And last night I couldn't find my main source for early Italian states so I'll have to look around for it too.)

I have always wanted model a 6mm Papal Army for the WSS. Some colorful uniforms there. I figure they could face off against the Austrians…

Preatorian Commander,

According to Hanlon's "The Twilight of a Military Tradition: Italian Aristocrats & European Conflicts, 1560-1800" (catchy title that):

Luigi Ferdinando Marsigli. Papal commander, at least in 1708–1709. Several pages about this in Stoye's biography of Marsigli. Appointed colonel of a grenadier regiment in 1708 by Clement XI, also conferred "sergeant-general" of the Papal forces. "He was a commander perhaps without talent, certainly without the necessary troops". Recruited an army (mostly on paper) but one incapable of offering serious resistance to the the Imperial troops.

Good luck with your project.

Steve

Thank you Steve!

I'd suggest the names Benito Felaccio and Alessandro Cagliostro, but *without* any historical basis :)

During the 1708 mobilization the two honorary Army Commissioners were the monsignors Cornelio Bentivoglio and Giambattista Patrizi (who was also the "Tesoriere generale" treasurer).

In 1701 the field commander was the marchese Francesco Massimi).

In 1708 they were going to offer the post to Marshal Berwick but instead it went to conte Luigi Ferdinando Marsigli. At his disposal was the marchese Cristoforo Spada the governor of the army of Ferrara; and colonel-general of the cavalry, Alessando Albani, the pope's 15-year-old nephew. (Look up the word origin of "nepotism" for more information on this!) There were also the sergeants-general Francesco Fournier duke d'Auttanne (I assume it's really "Francois" as he's probably French if you want to Google his name) and Antonio Domenico Balbiani as another cavalry commander.

[Taken from Tra I Borboni E Gli Asburgo.]

Andy, you are awesome. Thank you. Sadly, this is not so awesome news for my Papal Army as I notice their commanders are the scrapes at the bottom of the barrel.

Not only that, but it seems that their armies were generally a fiction as well. This should save you a fortune in figures! …Sorry.
Anyway, the three guys that show up should look great!

I notice their commanders are the scrapes at the bottom of the barrel.

Don't worry about that, so are their troops.

Looks like yours will be something of an "imagi-nations" project, Praetorian History. Historically, a comic opera army. As created by your paint brushes, an awesome fighting machine. ;-)

Make a dice roll and see if Berwick goes to Italy rather than Spain.
;^)

Well, I'm painting these as part of a friend's project and it allows for fictional armies. I've decided to go with Johann Matthias von der Schulenburg as my commander so that my army doesn't entirely suck. I'll even be painting a Swiss Guard regiment to make the army even more "flamboyant."

Anything known about the flags they carried??

I did find a few things scattered on the internet about Papal battle flags. Most of what is out there is about their naval flags.

A few of the regiments like the Swiss Guards and Serlupi (red background, golden crossed papal keys) have known flags but there are some unknown so I am just going to wing the unknowns with different 17th and 18th century Papal battle flags I found.