"Starship Trooper (novel) style armor?" Topic

In neither 28mm or 15mm have I seen the "steel gorilla" style power armor Heinlein talks about in his novel. What gives? All power armor I see is in "Space Marine" form.

M.

Check out Mongoose's 'Grizzly' and 'Cougar' PA suits. They're OOP (sort of) but they're out there.

What gives?

Because the Heilein description was not very specific…

Book Covers:

And the Anime (considered by many to be one of the better interpretations):

And then some actual miniatures:

Anywho – what you think of as "steel gorilla" armor, probably isn't what I think of. Not sure what exactly you are after – but it is probably out there already.

Ground Zero Games NAC in both 15 and 28mm. Cobalt 1 from Black Hat Miniatures has a heavily armored space suit in 28mm which might fit the bill.

I also seem to remember that not only was it described as a steel gorilla, but a hydrocephalic one, too.

Gotta love those Cougar suits!

The power armored minis that fit my MI conception the best are the long OOP Grenadier versions from the late '70s. They looked like deep sea diver suits with back pack rocket launchers. They were small 25mm & are tiny compared to current minis tho they match well with the venerable MacKuen Starguard range.

Mongoose is selling a modified version of the SST grizzly armor in the judge dread line: link

I still prefer the old Space Lords CyberTech line, now em4:
link
Pretty much exactly what I pictured from the book.
(Other sculpts were available with 'y' launchers and such…)

link

"Mongoose is selling a modified version of the SST grizzly armor in the judge dread line"

Holy crap, that is awesome. I'd get a few and file off some of the Judge Dredd bits and call them a later model Grizzly. :D Plus, I want that autocannon it's toting.

I'm with SpuriousMilius on this one. First time I saw the Grenadier power armor, I thought Starship Trooper. Only two versions of the figure were produced so they don't have the range of the Space Lords line, but I still like them the best.

Vince

Khurasan's versions (both the 15mm and the temporarily unavailable 28mm ones) fit the mental image I had reading the novel. Fully enclosed, jump packs, Y-rack for missiles.

I like the look of EM4's 28mm ones too… do those have a jump pack? link (3/4 of the way down)

@Volstagg – I've never seen some of those Spacelords minis. Thanks for that link!

Chris K.

I like seeing other peoples' takes on the appearance of the mobile infantry precisely because Heinlein was so vague as to appearance.

I like the interpretations of the arachnids even more, but sadly it's become very difficult to find artistic interpretations of the arachnids. Google arachnid warrior and you'll see why. Phil Tippett's spiky pelican head is all you'll see.

It would be interesting to start with a metallic gorilla shape, able to encompass a human body. Then, apply the minimum distortion required for a clinical diagnosis of hydrocephalus. Add Y racks and sci-fi what not, and see if people think it is Starship Trooperesque.

ST PA seems to be one of those things that everyone can picture in their mind, but there is nowhere near a consensus on what it is supposed to look like. Personally, I've not seen anything that looks like what I imagine it to be- I've seen tops of figures that would be great if paired with another ranges lower body but haven't seen "that perfect look".

Well, for what it's worth, here's my taking a stab at the problem with my own sketches and the ideas of others I felt came close to varying degrees to Heinlein's prose:

link

My own sketches took into account ergonomics as much as I am versed in the subject (ie., I'm no expert), plus hints provided by Heinlein's prose concerning suit features, what Rico said it was like to actually move and fight while wearing the suit, and trying to 'see" things through the eyes of an author writing in the mid-late 1950s after having his career in the US Navy cut short by illness.

Leland R. Erickson

So no WGF power-armor it seems…? Pity.

I always thought of the Hard-Suits from GITS:SAC (the ones in the second to last episode) to be what MI armor probably looks like.

It's big, and you don't operate it like most people think.

The Spacelords Sarday'kins are very nice, but out of production currently.

I just requested with EM-4 to consider adding some of them back into production, since they own the molds and rights to them.

They are well worth a look in 28mm scale.

Waaaa??? There's a Starship Troopers ANIME?! 0_0

WGF powered armour ain't dead yet; one can always still hope…

The Space Lords Sardaykin Legion figures are excellent, however they are *not* IMHO suitable as the sort of "ape" suits Heinlein was describing in his novel.

Leland R. Erickson

Leland, I like your designs. I would even add a little MORE bulk/mechaesqueness (!) to them. I imagine the suits standing about 8 feet tall hunched over, maybe 10 feet tall standing up, with plenty of weapons attachments. The Mongoose 'Grizzlies' really are pretty good, but pricey, out-of-print, and fiddly to put together.
The eM4 'space rangers' work pretty well (as 'true 25mm'…), despite the two-handed weapons.
What we NEED is a set of plastic BUGS, that one can afford to buy, assemble, and store, in HORDES.

The WGF powered armour topic was so full of different ideas and to be frank, a rather poor main concept being pushed all the time, that they were destined to fail.

I would have liked to have seen some WGF powered armour but I really couldn't say what I would like to see…

…as for the existing WGF idea not being dead…I fear they are already wiping the mud off the shovels.

"The WGF powered armour topic was so full of different ideas and to be frank, a rather poor main concept being pushed all the time, that they were destined to fail."

Why thank you for that, as that was my original L&UL proposal.

Leland R. Erickson

Also take a look at Halderman's "Forever War" as he was working from Heinlein's notes. He gives even more detail.

There have always been two problems with the WGF Starship trooper suggestions list:

1. There aren't set designs for the armour as laid down in picture format by the creator. That means that interpretation is always going to be subjective.

2. The WGF thread was owned by the starter. That means that because they have a set idea of what they want, they are almost obliged to 'keep things on track'…in other words, to push their idea.

Now everyone will have set ideas about what they want from the SST armour and because of the lack of pictures, they will come up with a very wide and varied selection of designs.

My view of the armour would be something modern sci-fi rather than 1970's sci-fi and that is why I thought the concept that was being pushed was weak. Probably because it wasn't my view of what the armour should be.

So it wasn't directed at you, BWP…but I didn't think much of the design shown NOT because it was rubbish but because I thought it was a poor concept of what I envisioned it should be.

The production was always destined to fail because there were too many ideas and no real decision on an end result that everyone (or at least a majority) were agreeing with…

Democracy meets art…

Any 'heavy power-armor' will do.

Of course, this is all moot now. In reality, 15mm is better for SST style games anyway… I like to use Khurasan's excellent power-armor troops.

If I had the capital, I would produce a SST boardgame a la FFG style, with lots of plastic MI and bugs, modular full color boards (tunnels on one side, surface on the other)… hidden movement, bug holes, tac-nukes, etc… etc… Generic enough to avoid IP issues I wonder?
Anyway, back to reality.

<p>There have always been two problems with the WGF Starship trooper suggestions list:

1. There aren't set designs for the armour as laid down in picture format by the creator. That means that interpretation is always going to be subjective.</p>

OK. You say this like it is a bad thing…… then again, wasn't that the whole point of the L&UL from the beginning, where if one's proposal was approved then it was up to the proposal author to persuade enough people to get on board with their creative vision, at least where the sci-fi and fantasy proposals?

<p>2. The WGF thread was owned by the starter. That means that because they have a set idea of what they want, they are almost obliged to 'keep things on track'…in other words, to push their idea.</p>

In other words, to see if they could have their creative vision realized, which IMHO was the whole point of the L&UL as it is with Eureka's 100/300 Club concept when it comes to the sci-fi and fantasy genres.

<p>Now everyone will have set ideas about what they want from the SST armour and because of the lack of pictures, they will come up with a very wide and varied selection of designs.</p>

Yup. And again, see my comments above about the proposal author having the choice to either try and maintain their creative vision or not… I'm scrappy by nature, so an epic row was inevitable 9and a Helluvalotta fun! Bwahahahaaa!!)…

<p>My view of the armour would be something modern sci-fi rather than 1970's sci-fi and that is why I thought the concept that was being pushed was weak. Probably because it wasn't my view of what the armour should be.</p>

70s? Actually, if you go back to the actual thread you'll see it was more of an effort to use Heinlein's own prose as a guide concerning suit features and ergonomics, plus an effort to try and "see" things as Heinlein might have when he first wrote the novel in the 1950s.

<p>So it wasn't directed at you, BWP…but I didn't think much of the design shown NOT because it was rubbish but because I thought it was a poor concept of what I envisioned it should be.</p>

A "…poor concept of what [you] envisioned" is IMHO an all-too obvious way of saying in a sentence the word "rubbish," but again, the L&UL was wide open to proposals when it launched, and I was just fool lucky enough to get in a "Generic Powered Armour Suit" proposal before anyone else, so what was a little madman like me to do 'cept try and get some *proper* affordable plastic powered armour out there for my fellow gamers to enjoy?

<p>The production was always destined to fail because there were too many ideas and no real decision on an end result that everyone (or at least a majority) were agreeing with…</p>

How did it "fail?" There was a change in company leadership, and all that went along with it, but the current management has shown no indication of abolishing the L&UL nor simply ignoring the production of this proposal in some fashion. Until the company folds or produces the figures, whatever our personal passions about the change in management, the fact remains that it is too premature to declare the L&UL or the company "dead" until either is actually shut down.

For what it's worth, back in the day before CGI came to dominate film production and model building skills were still a potential source of employment in the film industry, I was encouraged by a former LucasFilm/ILM modelmaker to apply for an apprenticeship. He gave me a solid piece of advice should I have chosen to pursue that application, that I had to understand that my sole purpose was no more or less than to "help the director realize *his* creative vision. My own creative input was entirely unwelcome, and would remain so until I had proven myself *in the industry* well and thoroughly.

Now the input of others was *not* unwelcome with my L&UL proposal, however the essential focus of the proposal was what I remained steadfast in defending, including with the new management. The proposal on the evidence met or exceeded the required level of pre-order commitment based upon the original proposal language and description.

The simple reality of any creative endeavor when there's an enthusiastic committee of highly imaginative people involved is that there needs to be someone who makes the final decision one way or another to see the project through to the end. Otherwise you end up with the proverbial camel (ie., a horse designed by a committee).

Leland R. Erickson

…and that last post sums it up.

"…and that last post sums it up."

In other words you saw the L&UL system as a problem, while loonies like yours truly saw it as a solution.

Was the glass half empty, or half full (and there's a full pitcher on the counter across the bar with your name on it)?

Glass looked kinda halfway to full to me, Oh Unsleeping One.

Leland R. Erickson

It was a good idea but not every idea is saleable, no matter how hard it is plugged.