"Discrepancy in Prussian Uniform Summerfield and Centjours" Topic

Hi,

I am painting some Prussians for IR15 and IR18 for the 100 days. Summerfield in his book has IR15 with pink collars and cuffs while link site has yellow-gold collars and cuffs. Both have the reverse for IR18.

Who is correct?

Thanks,

John

The twelve Reserve-Regimenter were renamed Infanterie-Regimenter on 25 March 1815, introducing new combinations of distinctive colours for all of them. Before, they had had the distinctions of their corresponding line regiments, theoretically (I have come accross not a single reference that this order was ever applied) with the regimental number on the shoulder straps.

3. Reserve-Regiment (brick red collars and cuffs, red shoulder straps) became 15. Infanterie-Regiment (yellow collars and cuffs, mid blue shoulder straps).

This regiment changed its collars from brick red to yellow in May 1815. But a few uniforms still maintained the old combination of colours.

6. Reserve-Regiment (carmine collars and cuffs, white shoulder straps) became 18. Infanterie-Regiment (rose red collars and cuffs, white shoulder straps).

In June 1815 this regiment was about to change its collars to the new colour. When the campaign started, a part of the regiment had to move out in uniforms without collars. In some English publications on the Prussian army the story is reported, that the men of this regiment tore off their collars in order to march to the battlefield more easily, and that for this act, the regiment was rewarded with the right to wear rose red collars by the king. Not only common sense, but also the fact that this regiment had receivd rose red as its distinctive colour already by the above mentioned order of 25th March, reveals this story as a pure fiction.

Try the excellent article on Prussian Reserve infantry uniforms at the Napoleon Series:

link

Short answer from there was that IR 18 had pink collars and cuffs and IR 15 red except yellow shoulder straps.

Of course, your mileage may vary!

Ed

Funny, on page 137 of Vol 2 of his books on the Prussian Infantry, S. Summerfield has these reversed.

I am on my first unit, and am painting both IR15 and 18. I have all the company distinctions, is there any battalion distinctions within each regiment in respect to uniform aside from the musk/fus distinction.

Thanks for the Mantle link, it is excellent

Thanks,

John

Rob Mantle's article quotes widely from Bourdier, who is very unreliable. Here for example the text on the 6. Reserve-Regiment:

On March 25 of that year, the 6th R.I.R. became the First Westphalian Regiment (No 18). In his L'Armée Prussienne de Waterloo, F R Bourdier states that the majoirty of men had received the regulation uniform (rose pink facings and white shoulder straps) by June 1815, but a small number 'quelques rares élements' still retained the old uniforms. In addition some men wore the regulation uniform but with crimson or yellow facings, while others had removed these old facings but had not received rose coloured cloth and went to war with collar and cuffs in the same colour as the kollet.

There is only one regimental history of the 18th regiment, published in 1848, which only gives the info I gave above. There are no memoirs of members of this regiment.

So for me it seems, Bourdier's statements about crimson, yellow and dark blue collars are just fancy.

And the 18. Infanterie-Regiment was never called 1. Westphalian. When the new regiments created in 1815 received provincial denominations as late as 5 November 1816, it became the 18. Infanterie-Regiment (3. Westpreußisches).

Thank you Oliver. Very interesting.

Ed

Oliver,

Is it possible that the 18 IR was filled up with drafts of men, miscellaneously drawn from West Prussian and Silesian depot units and wearing the respective provincial colours?

And as well, is it possible that "rose pink" was just badly faded crimson, the West Prussian provincial colour?

This "rose pink" most probably is meant to be the translation for "rosenrot" given as distinctive colour to infantry regiments 18, 19, 28 and 29 on 25 March 1815.

(If anybody is checking, the details given by Mila, § 839, are wrong. The correct information is given in Das Preußische Heer der Befreiungskriege, vol. 3, p. 133.)

This "rose red" was meant to be the distinctive colour for line regiments of the Rhine province, but on 9 February 1816 a new system of identifying the regiments was introduced, and distinctive provincial colours abolished. On 5 November 1816, the allocation of regiments to provinces was changed as well, and the 18th regiment became West Prussian.

The reason that Bourdier (or Rob Mantle) mentions yellow and crimson collars, is that the 6. Reserve-Regiment was formed in July 1813 from West Prussian and Silesian battalions, and the officers continued (at least in the beginning) to wear the uniforms of the units they came from.

Unfortunately, information on the development of the actual uniforms worn in the 18th regiment is scarce.