"Dear Editor: You are dead to me." Topic

Indeed. So Dawghouse him.

Chucking him out completely does run counter to the whole 'freedom of speech' thing.

Especially as Doug is still somehow allowed to post….

Another day, another meltdown.

If you don't understand the subtle distinction between 'freedom of speech' and 'insulting the Editor' you must be fick

Waiting for the house analogy?

So does anyone know the corect Vallejo colour for Japanese early WW2 equipment? I've been using Engish Uniform, but I'm not sure if it's correct.

Vargulver, English Uniform is close enough for me. I can't see jungle uniforms staying 'parade ground clean' for long so I think you have a lot of leeway really. What terrain are you using? Matakishi's website has a lot of tips for making jungle-type terrain.

You know I have never painted Japanese figures except for some Airfix ones back in the 1970 when the only paint was Testers. Does anyone have a link to good image of Japanese battle dress uniforms? I have not done figures for this theater and might be something good to do that I have not done.
VR
James Mattes

I don't have a picture link, I have been using the Osprey books for my refs.

Ninjasaurus, I have see that website; matakishi.com/jungle.htm before and was thinking of buying a few odds and sods from aquarium stores (like palm trees) and seeing what I come up with!

What size Japanese? I bought a few of these auction for 25 mm SF. I can get away with a multitude of sins in SF, but I hope to see them in a few days, PM me.

Thanks for the link Flooglestreet, I'll get them on my watch list. They look a bit toyish, but I guess with a bit of work, I might be able to do something with them! The minis are CD's 15mm range. I bought them a few years ago when I worked in Singapore for short while and found out a bit about the campaigns over there. It seemed like an interesting gaming subject!

hmm i wonder do the words Grow up mean anything?, its hard to believe its adults here sometimes IMHO.

I like john the OFM, but honestly soon of this drama is just idiotic. As far as darthfozzy…and Allen, and indeed anybody else. This is the editor's house and his rules. If some of this behavior was exhibited in my home, I'd punch you square in the face and drag you out of it, the editor practices a more subtle form. He only banishes you from the house, but lets you peek in the windows. ;)
But a loss to the community! ?! A loss to the community would be a company folding up or a long running convention suddenly stopping, but even then new companies and new conventions come along… ;)

When you drive the Weavers away you are doing something very bad for your community.

This place is and has been turning into a -hole. To much non-game and toy soldier nonsense.

I do not usually say much on these testy type subjects, but when someone asks that they not be the subject of further ridicule (ie polls, in jest or no), then it is simply polite to listen.

When that ridicule/jesting is such that it reaches a point that the person in question finds harmful to themselves (drama queen or no), then it ceases to be in fun and becomes cyber-bullying…which is punishable in several states. That it was allowed…and actually condoned (reading between the lines of the editor's responses) under the guise of free speech is…disturbing.

That the decision to let the polls stand as justified despite nearly every person willing to comment on this decrying the outcome is also disturbing.

It points to some very questionable moral ground…

I'm sorry, but Bill's House, Bill's Rules won't cover your butt if someone decides that this should become a criminal issue (a most extreme circumstance true).

Exactly what did Caesar do to get his account locked?

Accused someone of being a pedophile. That's not something that can be tolerated, and 'freedom of speech' is not a valid defense in this area.

…Bill's House, Bill's Rules won't cover your butt if someone decides that this should become a criminal issue…

OK, I think that wins the award for stupidest thing said on this subject. Yes, we definitely need the police and the courts involved when someone dares to ask for a poll concerning where someone might want to travel to.

Also, when someone clearly states they find posts and polls about himself distressing, and those things are allowed to continue -- well, deliberately causing pain to someone is not my cup of tea. To ban the man because he got frustrated was over the top.

I think as school teachers and aware of modern harassment laws, the weavers made it quite clear.

I think you always had the means to stop this and could have done so. You just chose not too under claims of free speech that seem oddly out of whack with existing laws.

When people as nice, as well respected and such long term members as the Weavers make a statement like that I think that you should climb down from your hobby horse and pay attention.

You seem to have adopted a Nelsonian blind eye throughout the entire episode even though it was blatantly obvious that it was building up to a crisis.

Your actions have been so unfathomable that it can only give weight to the claims by some that this was a personal vendetta by yourself. Certainly your continued shrugging off of all blame because of 'the rules' is becoming shrill and silly.

Yesterday I set out to try to find some middle ground and seek a way to resolve this whole issue. As was predicted by other members….and some of your paying ADVERTISERS ….you seem to have immediately jumped on my case too. You have become far too predictable Bill.

Its nonsense to say you have not lost many members. You have also lost and are about to lose Advertisers because they dont want to be seen associated with the unfairness.

Not only did people express an opinion that you would be on my case for trying to find a peaceful resolution, I have been contacted by several people stating they have just dropped off TMP without comment and will not be returning.

Your total of members lost is quite fallacious. You've lost far more than that and your attitude to trying to smooth things over has resulted in this afternoon alone, my receiving three more messages from people who are leaving because they have no confidence in your ability to handle things in a fair and even manner.

You may decide to block me for saying that. But it will merely confirm what others are saying. Another demonstration of how selective you can be by how quickly you removed POLLS you considered insulting to yourself. Once again, I did not agree with the POLLS attacking you….but they were not the message. The message was that there was one rule for attacks on you that someone thought amusing and another for attacks on others that you thought were amusing.

If you are unwell, or you have worries, then say so. We would immediately understand. The members have been very supportive when anyone has a problem. I've tried to use that as a possible excuse when trying to smooth the ruffled feathers of others over the past 48 hours.

This is not some war you are fighting with FROTHERS as in the past. It is not some war you are pursuing with Frank Hammond or on other sites as in the past. Over the years you could just walk away from those when things got embarrassing.

This is TMP. Your own site. You cant take your bat and ball and go home here.

For goodness sake stop being such a total ASS!

OK, I think that wins the award for stupidest thing said on this subject. Yes, we definitely need the police and the courts involved when someone dares to ask for a poll concerning where someone might want to travel to.

No, this stands as the dumbest statement in the whole mess. It ignores that these multiple polls that singled John the OFM out obviously have been a great source of harassment and embarrassment to him, and legally speaking it may constitute cyber-bullying.

Here's a legal definition:

link

TMP has up till now been my favourite port-of-call for my online fix of wargames discussion. There are many other good sites too, but this one has more people, more help if you ask a question, and more range of discussion.

However I've got to say that in the last view days my opinion has soured. TMP itself remains the same – an eclectic mix of the useful, the interesting, the serious, the funny and the plain weird. But now we also have to add "the distasteful" to the mix. The way this recent childish cyber-bullying situation has been allowed and handled by the Editor leaves a very bad taste.

Sadly, TMP will never quite feel the same for me after this.

That's not something that can be tolerated, and 'freedom of speech' is not a valid defense in this area.

link

Much?

Here's a legal definition:

Why is everyone trying to Cyber-Bully Bill?

I know the concept is not limited to age, but is anyone involved a tween?

Whenever I hear legal definitions being tossed about concerning rather minor incidents involving adults, I am filled with images of The Waterboy. Mostly grabbing his helmet, pacing back and forth screaming, "stop making fun of me" right before he TKO's some poor QB.

Maybe all those offended could visualize and use it as their wargamin' fuel!

Well, that's a spectrum of opinion – Connard Sage is in favor of pedophile accusations on the forums, while El Duderino wants me to become "sensitivity cop" in case someone feels they're being bullied on the forums though no forum rules have been broken… give me a break!

Pretty soon the only thing allowed on tmp will be pictures of miniature headgear relative to period boards…and no discussion.

Maybe you could start handing out mandatory moderator time for troubled boards as community service to those who make wild claims, bully you, or get DH'd. That would make things exciting!

If they don't handle their responsibility you could punish them harshly by making polls about their travel destinations. That'll keep 'em in line!

The Editor's job could get a lot more fun.

I'm a problem solver…I solve problems.

Connard Sage is in favor of pedophile accusations on the forums

Where did I say that?

This is going downhill really fast, isn't it?

This is going downhill really fast, isn't it?

I agree…to quote myself from a recent poll post:

….if some buffoon wants to write a load of self important, illogical, infantile or insulting nonsense on a message board then the least I can do is take the trouble to read it and laugh at them.

I'm not so sure I can be bothered to take the trouble any more….

So I painted my Japanese tanks with a base colour of English Uniform, anyone got an idea for the camo scheme colours? Vallejo paints, if possible?

Late war I think the colours are the same as for Germans.

Dark Blue Grey, Desert Yellow, Flat Green …..?

I think what you accussed Connard Sage of, is rather out of order,regardless of what you think.

vargulver, I have found this page a useful guide:

link

Hope this helps you to continue with your miniatures…..

Does anyone else think that Vallejo paints are too bright for military subjects?

No, you overstate what I am saying. If a member asks not to be the subject of a poll, you should put your man pants on and respect the request.

Since when is it stupid to point out a potential outcome? It would seem to me to be more stupid ignoring that such an outcome exists. Granted, it depends on how strongly the injured party feels about what has occurred…but it makes the potential no less valid.

Brilliant, thanks for the info chaps! I don't think Vallejo are too bright, you can always dull them down if needs be anyway.

If a member asks not to be the subject of a poll, you should put your man pants on and respect the request.

Nonsense. If the poll breaks none of our community rules, why not run it? Have we become such a bunch of manby-pambys that we can't talk about each other any more?

Apparently yes.

Connard Sage is in favor of pedophile accusations on the forums

Where did I say that?

Well, when I stated that free speech on the TMP forums should not include falsely accusing people of being pedophiles, you replied:

So, my conclusion is that you find it entertaining when people throw false accusations around.

No Bill, he was laughing at your interpretation of 'Free Speech'

"Free Speech" – what Bill wants to say about people.
"Not Free Speech" – anything Bill doesn't like.

If the drafters of the US constitution had only had you there to advise, the whole process would have been so much quicker.

I agree Caesar should not have dragged up that poison worm.

Pat

I thought Caesar simply provided the offensive quote from that person. One could then draw one's own conclusions.

I guess I'll have to go back and see if I can find the message and see if he actually made an accusation.

Direct quote or not, there is a specific ban in place on 'discussing' it, as well there should be. I expect Doug will be locked shortly as well, since he replied to the accusation, breaking the same rule…. yes, shortly . shoooorrrrrtly…..

Waits……

Pat

Please somebody explain to me just how any consideration for the term "Free Speech" factors into anything, anywhere here?

People keep tossing that term around like a ball boy at the U.S. Open.

…or a booster's personal check at a Miami Hurricane's football team party.

No Bill, he was laughing at your interpretation of 'Free Speech'

"Free Speech" – what Bill wants to say about people.
"Not Free Speech" – anything Bill doesn't like.

If the drafters of the US constitution had only had you there to advise, the whole process would have been so much quicker.

Are you really that blind? Seems to me that there's all kinds of "speech that Bill probably wouldn't like" allowed all over the forums here.

Free speech isn't an absolute right; it never is, anywhere. As owner of this website, I have a responsibility to exercise a certain level of control over what is allowed here. Do you think it's different on any other forum?

Please somebody explain to me just how any consideration for the term "Free Speech" factors into anything, anywhere here?

It's pretty simple, really – wouldn't you rather participate in a forum with the fewest possible restrictions on what you can say?

I'm still shocked that this site needs a editor or moderator at all. It's about wargaming. Those who have gotten themselves removed or kicked out brought it on themselves. I have been coming here for years and have only been put in the klink one time. (supporting recasting)Lesson learned. Want to stay and enjoy TMP? Somethings are off limits. Just don't talk about them here.

It's pretty simple, really – wouldn't you rather participate in a forum with the fewest possible restrictions on what you can say?

That's kind of the point. Aside from adherence to a service provider's acceptable use policy and few if any other things, what is or isn't okay is solely within your preference. I don't see how anyone doesn't understand that.

Some people here have been attempting to use the weighty expression "Freedom of Speech" as a quip. Out of place and not applicable.

This is almost as interesting as the Napoleonic Boards but less satisfying and much less informative.

It is also an interesting example of "group dynamics".

I always thought the OFM got away with a lot and suspected he had many other identities within the fabric of TMP so I don't think we'll miss his "cult of personality" for long.

Regardless, …this place is Bill's property. I always remove my hat and shoes when I enter.

Not that my opinion matters… Will

Will, you go barefoot in here? You are a brave man, Sir.

I've been trying to toughen my feet as we ready the move to Kirkland, AFB, and the new training system with the 550th… Will

The OFM is but a distant memory & still the thread staggers on.

The party's over, but the mammaries linger on.