"1806 Saxon Artillery " Topic

I'm looking for a point in the right direction on the color of Saxon artillery limbers and caissons in 1806. Given the enmity between Saxony and Prussia in 1806, I'm betting it wasn't Prussian artillery blue.

yellow wood grey trim I believe been awhile since I played with my Saxons

A dark blue-grey with yellow (metal?) fittings. Tops to the caissons a brick-red colour.

If you can find a copy, Muller and Rother, Die Kurfurstlich-Sachsichen Armee um 1791, Berlin 1990, is very useful. It contains Reinhold's plates on the army from 1791-1806.

Stephen Summerfield can doubtless add more.

Bill

Thanks very much!!

Here's a period illustration of a Saxon gun if I can make this photo link stuff work:

[IMG]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm4/photocrinch/saxonartillery.jpg[/IMG]

Can't remember the source unfortunately, but do remember that it was drawn close to the 1806 period.

David

Hmmmm, looks almost black, doesn't it?

Yep,

But keep in mind it is an old print and there is no telling what age and even modern photography has done to the colors. What I found interesting is that the artist has drawn the barrel and fittings to look like polished brass. I have been told that brass is not strong enough or too expensive to use on the gun carriage, but I opted for brass anyway as it seems pretty clear in this picture. I believe there is also a museum with an actual or reproduction carriage somewhere in Saxony that has brass fittings as well, but I must stress that is a vague memory.

David

There was already one or two years ago a good discussion on this where I provided a lot of photos.

that one from above is from Die Kurfürstlich Sächsische Armee um 1791, engraved by Reinold, printed in 1990, Berlin

The guns and limbers were black, ammunition waggons are a different story, black wheels and under beam, etc, the case itself light blue and the lid of a reddish brown,

Very useful von Winterfeldt, thank you

Dear David
You can see a drawing of the Saxon M1766 Ordnance in my book

Stephen Summerfield (2010) Saxon Artillery 1733-1827, Partizan Press
link

Back page show the plan of the M1766 4-pdr Schnellfuergeschutze.

This quick fire gun whose designs to those used in the 7 Years War but in 3-pdr calibre. It was loaded by dropping the breech to 45 degrees to drop the charge before being returned to its firing position. This was copied by Piedmont and also used by the Austrian & French as mountain guns. See Smoothbore Ordnance Journal Issue 3 that has just been publisheb.

The woodwork was in effect creosote black with yellow or brass metalwork. The M1811 had bronze metalwork it seems.

Stephen

I only wish my painting did justice to the examples you have shown in your book. Thanks for posting the link.

David

Dear David
Are there anybody producing M1766 Saxon Ordnance. I have not come across it. I have a proof casting of Saxon M1811 6-pdr and 7-pdr Howitzer from Peter Fitzgerald of Calpe Miniatures a year or more ago. This is about as good a model I have seen. I do not think these have been released yet.
Stephen

Sorry Stephen, not that I know of. I'm working with 15mm figures with AB castings, so carriage and barrel design has minimal visual impact at any rate.

David

Dear David
Thanks. AB are nice. Calpe are in 28mm. My armies are 15mm. Alas I have no proper Saxon Artillery for my army.

Stephen

The guns are painted dark grey with black iron fittings for strength, BUT these were then plated with thin brass sheeting and polished for decoration. Saxony used the latest French artillery designs – Gribieval [sp] for all of it's ordnance despite the otherwise lack of modernity in it's 1805-09 army.

@Braunschweig

I disagree – Saxon gun limbers and wheels were painted black , the fittings were either brass or painted yellow iron, nobody would use brass sheeting.
Neither did the Saxons use Gribeauval but they had their own designs, please read Dr. Summerfields recent study about the Saxon ordonnance

Dear Braunschweig
As I have stated before, the wood of the gun carriages were painted with a mixture that approximates to creosote. It is black with a slight hint of the brown from the wood. You can see the colour on old fences and telegraph poles in the UK.

The metalwork was yellow metal (brass). Although some authors have translated the German to mean yellow paint.

The latest French designs was the AnXI system of 1803 and not the Gribeauval System that dates back to 1765. The older Saxon Designs were in fact newer than Gribeauval as they date from 1766-1772. There were a number of important innovations. I have already talked about the 4-pdr Schellfuergeschutz (quick fire gun) and it was able to fire almost double the speed of normal artillery.

The Saxon Army was ill considered, understood and was of course last on the list for supplies when dealing with the French for 1809. Their bad name was much to do with the French.

1. Saxon Army last on the list for supplies from the French.
2. Saxon Infantry mistaken for Austrians on a number of occassions. Blue on Blue.
3. Bernadotte rift with Napoleon. He then became Crown Prince of Sweden and was never forgiven by him let alone his supporters down the centuries.
4. The horses were taken from the cavalry in 1806 and those that survived returned by the French. Remember that it took time to school a horse.
5. The mismatch in drill of the French and the Saxons.
6. Yes there was as in many armies a problem with officers growing old and not being able to obtain pensions. This was common in most armies.

The Saxon Army performed competently in 1807 as French Allies. It suffered through those given above and no doudt more in 1809. In 1812-13, it performed very well until it was forced to change sides. Remember that Leipzig is in Saxony and the French were loosing. Retreating from Saxony what other decision is there to jump before you are hanged. The Saxons were very poorly treated by the Prussians after Leipzig. They performed very well in 1814 as part of the German Armeekorps. The Royal Saxon were a very sad ommission in 1815 campaign where they would have been the most experienced / reliable troops fighting under Wellington. They would not fought under Prussian command. The northern half of Saxony became Prussian.
Stephen
Stephen

Dear All
My book was reviewed on Napoleon Series.
link

Cheers
Stephen