"Five Worst Anachronisms in FRPs?" Topic

Most fantasy role-playing games are set in medieval or ancient times, except with the added fictional element of fantasy.

Yet many FRPs get the "medieval" part wrong, and make egregious historical mistakes.

Which ones bother you the most?

The absurd leather buckled corset look in the art.

Kung-Fu monks in a Western European setting.

Everyone walking around armed and armored to the teeth when just strolling around town.

Pacifistic, vegetarian, Eco-nut Druids.

There is almost no chance that your character will contract the bubonic plague. Probably not even those minor NPC henchmen who follow him around.

Chainmail bikini tops.

Chainmainl bikini bottoms.

Massive swords for such femmes to assert their manliness.

Are crates an anachronism? Seems like barrels would be more apropos.

Two-Handed swords used in close quarters (not to mention pole arms)

Everyone is pretty much OK with Feudalism which in FRPs appears pretty much like life in America only with more leather armor and gold and fewer firearms and hamburger and/or pancake restaurants!

Meeting in a tavern.

gold coins

I like the chain-mail bikini tops and bottoms, thank you very much. I particularly like them on the robust Frazetta type females with huge weapons- preferably killing some dinosaur or cave man!

The choice of worshipping Roman, Sumerian and other ancient gods.

The bizarre choice of weaponry.

The bizarre choice of armor.

The 16th C.+ ships that are in the illustrations.

The bizarre mixture of Europe with Asian and American cultures.

The fact that people are expected to have teeth.

The fact that people do EVERYTHING in armor, including sleep, go to the bathroom and brush their teeth, in case they're attacked by surprise.

Pretty much everything about them.

Usually the economics… the way money works and the way it can be spent… your ability to go to 'ye olde shopping mall' and buy whatever ready-made magical whatsit you desire.

Infinitely burining torches (since Sundance stole my sleeping in Armor comments)

Riding around in wagons--roads were lousy, wagons and seats had no springs--an hour or two of that and you wouldn't be able to sit for a week.
All the armor--I once read that Europe had only one or two pounds of metal per person in the Middle Ages, and there you are wearing two villages worth of iron.
The monetary economy--a lot of things would have been barter, or costs would have been figured in terms of sheep, cattle or wadmal, whatever the local standard was.
Religious issues annoy me in a number of different ways.
Grelber

i donīt agree with the "games set in ancient or medieval times with fantasy elements added". I think that usually its the reverse: fantasy worlds with some historical medieval element added, either some kind of feudalism, or just tech level or fashion.
My main concerns used to be crazy or too simplistic economic systems, and inserting metagaming into social design…you know, i remember a small village in a d&d module were the they coated the village`s wall with resin just to add a negative mod. To climb XD

Everything is printed and everyone can read. Governments and the military function better than in modern times with as much sophistication.

Female Monks. If I recollect, Monk is a male term. That's like saying, "Male Nuns."

Knights in plate armour wearing barrel helms…..

JohnG

Potatoes.

The medieval peasantry with sound dentition is fine. Tooth decay doesn't start to become a problem, historically, until people get access to refined sugar in their diets.

What REALLY grips my colon is historical-equivalent cultures co-existing without crossover or assimilation.

You get Not-Romans living next door to Not-Samurai living next door to Not-Vikings.

No culture ever has an advantage over the others which allows it to become dominant. No amount of guns and steam-engines will ever give the Empire an advantage over Brettonian knights. And no Brettonian will ever look at mechanized Imperial forces and say: "You know what? WE should do that."

And basic commerce that doesn't add up.

Example: How to buy a 10ft pole in 3rd Ed.

1. Buy a 10ft ladder. (5 copper)

2. Kick it to bits.

3. Keep one side. That's yer 10ft pole right there.

4. Sell the other side as a 10ft pole at half market price (1 silver) thus getting back double what you paid.

5. Give the rungs to the poor as firewood or chuck 'em at hobbits for a giggle, according to your alignment.

Mexican Jack's comment on the plague reminded me of a Chivalry & Sorcery campaign I ran a long time ago. The player characters ended up as part of a large besieging army outside Bristol and one of them (the Percy heir, no less) died of the plague that swept the camp. The player was quite pleased, because it felt right!

Back to the original question: easy availability of resurrection miracles, since in many systems the local bishop can do them easily. Which would explain the rather permanent demise of young Percy in our game…

I don't see how you can have historical mistakes in a fantasy setting, other than contradicting your own established canon of pretend history.

Everyone carries a 10' pole and 50' of rope.

Yet many FRPs get the "medieval" part wrong, and make egregious historical mistakes.

Which ones bother you the most?

They don't bother me, it is after all fantasy roleplaying not historical roleplaying.

Weird dungeon traps that no one would put in their proper castle…

Everyone carries a 10' pole and 50' of rope.

What's odd about that ? I never leave home without my length of rope or a sturdy pole.

Everyone carries a 10' pole and 50' of rope.

And not only. Most characters are like a walking swiss army knife with a variety of weapons that specialise in killing any type of opponent, a weeks worth of food and a the treasury of a small kingdom strapped to their backs. And that's even before they get the magic backpacks. How do they walk let alone fight?

Not sure I consider a lot of the posts anachronisms but I understand the complaints. I've always liked to lean towards more realistic and plausible in my games even if it is fantasy.

It's a fantasy role playing game. There are orcs, elves and dwarves. Wizards cast spells. How can there be anachronisms?

I don't see how you can have historical mistakes in a fantasy setting.
it is after all fantasy roleplaying not historical roleplaying.
How can there be anachronisms?

They are full of unrealistic things. I agree with fantasy worlds if people act as they would act in any world, magical or not. But in most FRPs they don't. Perhaps it is not what "anachronism" really means; but history gives us lots of exemple of human behaviour, civilisation, economics, etc in different situations and in many FRPs we don't see this.
This is why I prefer to start with an historical world and to add some magic and monsters to it, rather than invent new seetings.

Everyone carries a 10' pole and 50' of rope.

Not to derail the current conversation, but this is an excellent point. I always liked this miniature from Reaper for that very reason:

Are there any other overladen (or, given how I played FRPGs when I was younger) correctly laden miniatures that you know of?

Citadel's famous 'The Compleat Adventurer'… see if I can find an image.

Here we go, original & Ral Partha licensed 2nd ed:
link

And the 3rd ed. from AB! Nice one!

Citadel's famous 'The Compleat Adventurer'… see if I can find an image.

He had a torch and a sink I recall.

EDIT

Here he is>

coolminiornot.com/273281

You mean historically, a medieval fantasy setting isn't supposed to be like a modern day Renaissance Festival?

All of the above. I hate FRP Gaming.

I think it's the extreme lack of consistency; one guy is in 15th century plate and another guy is dressed like a Viking. They trek for a few days (burdened like the figures pictured above) and enter a kingdom with bronze weapons and everyone is riding chariots!

None.
Its fantasy, so I can roll with most things.

Republican Dwarves vs. Democrat Elves… they never talk about the issues and just sling mud.

Everyone else in Fantasy games is apparently a libertarian.

If I ever write a fantasy novel it will be titled "Teleportation in the time of The Plague"

Racial abilities and qualities: now there is a fine lesson for 14 year olds to glom on to. (Technically its ok since in fantasy worlds there REALLY ARE RACES but in the real world we are all just humans – still the presence of racism in the real world, while nonsense, makes gaming racism a bit questionable.)

Armored lions that fly and for some unknown motivation let armored humans with lances ride on their backs for in-air jousting. Replace last with any other extremely hard to swallow combination!

It's FANTASY mates! That's why it's like a Renaissance Fair with Orcs and Elves. You could have a true Medieval Role-playing game, but who wants to die of the plague or starvation all the time?

Pyromaniac Hobbits, always burning down the inn.

non-roleplayed spellcasting, the cleric healing each adventurer during combat, long bows used in corridors, repeating crossbows, 'thunderstone'/flaming oil grenades, all those cultures never influencing each other, stupid non-human races(if orcs were as bad as GW portrayed them, they'd be extinct-a Visi/Ostro Goth type orc society would be a serious threat), mixed dino's and mammals(ever have a herd of tricerotops trample your crops?), Dinosaurs need names the culture/society would give them, not 'Styracosaurus', class warfare/bigotry not portrayed, 200-600 year old elves should be npc's, " It's the economy, stupid", overblown treasure hoards..but, it's fantasy.

The ethnic cleansing themes are faithful to the medieval mindset, though… all Saracens, er, orcs are evil!

"Ethnic Cleansing and Unwashed Masses"

A fitting subtitle to a FRPG!

Tooth decay doesn't start to become a problem, historically, until people get access to refined sugar in their diets.

Actually, bread causes cavities quite nicely too. Pretty much any starch will do the trick. In fact, I've read that the coarse ground flour used by most people throughout history contributed to this by wearing down enamel prematurely.

Doug

Actual anachronisms, rather than silly fantasy things like sleeping in armor and carrying too much equipment, that I notice the most are:

Feminism
Environmentalism
Polytheism
Human rights, due process, individual liberty
No or very limited feudalism

Basically, most 'medieval' fantasy worlds tend to be 20th-21st century Americans/Europeans in a pre-modern environment without any attempt to replicate anything approaching a preindustrial mind-set.

There is almost no chance that your character will contract the bubonic plague. Probably not even those minor NPC henchmen who follow him around.

:)

The fact that people are expected to have teeth.

:)

The fact that time and tech levels never seems to move forward.
Return to the Keep on the Borderlands.
WORST ADVENTURE EVER!

You mean historically, a medieval fantasy setting isn't supposed to be like a modern day Renaissance Festival?

Don't be cruel.

I think it's the extreme lack of consistency
The fact that time and tech levels never seems to move forward.

Exactly.

Its fantasy, so I can roll with most things.
beer

OK. The whole point is that some people are happy with some games and contexts, and some other people are not.
I am not happy if I can't believe in the world I am playing in. So, I believe in fantasy IF… what normal people (= historical people, and me) would do in such a context is understandable.

If I ever write a fantasy novel it will be titled "Teleportation in the time of The Plague"

Brilliant.

I just want internal consistency within a setting. Everything else is fine. I mean, I'm sitting down to play a game where I might encounter owlbears and gelatinous cubes. I'm cool with that.

"Actually, bread causes cavities quite nicely too."

Yeah, but the gradual wearing-down caused by coarsely-milled grain foods takes decades. By the time it becomes a problem, you'll be dead of childbirth and bloody flux. :)

The gross abuse and/or ignorance of the local law by roving bands of murderous environmentally insensitive sociopathic tomb thieves.

"Everyone else in Fantasy games is apparently a libertarian."

I LOL'd.

"Pyromaniac Hobbits, always burning down the inn."

I know that reference, ;) , and I played a Halfling in that mould in a WHRP campaign.

"Basically, most 'medieval' fantasy worlds tend to be 20th-21st century Americans/Europeans in a pre-modern environment without any attempt to replicate anything approaching a preindustrial mind-set."

I've read somewhere that the logical kind of cause-and-effect thinking that Brother Cadfael possessed that allowed him to solve crime did not exist in his time historically – people will attribute all things to God or the devil (or elves, if you were pagan) instead of applying the scientific method.