"Are You a Stainpainter?" Topic

If I recall correctly, "stainpainting" was a technique originated by Duke Seifried in the 80s, and was a speed-painting method that used washes.

Are you, or have you ever been, a stainpainter?

No

I tried stain-painting back in the '80s, but I didn't like the blotchy, impressionistic look of the finished product.

I think the dip gives a much better result for about the same amount of time.

Nope.

I have done it (and still do on armoured vehicles) but tend to block and dip figures these days.

It depends on what I'm painting. Terrain and modern military uniforms for sure. The situation dictates the method for me.

No, I paint figures, not stains.

No. I watched Duke demonstrate this method several times, but I was never all that impressed with the results. I think it appealed to those who wanted to get figures on the table fast and weren't too picky about the paint job.

I did my 1889 figs that way (look nice), but I tend to block and do ink washes.

Yes. It's one of the tools in the box, but not the only one.

Stain baby, stain. : )

I've tried it and it was not my thing. Dip for me.

Jeff

I'm still not sure what 'Stain Painting' is. If it is simply using inks and translucent washes over white without the base coat then, yes. But I don't use it for the majority of my figures. I use it in a limited fashion for some monsters and such.

One can get some unique results using the new washes on the market. I specifically have gotten good results using the almost new GW washes.

can't say i every used it . am Not overfamilar with the technique . I remember heritage mini's doing a pre paint line with white base and washes of color for "insstant" shading

I had been using gesso as my primer, and Pactra, Humbrol, Testor's etc enamels.
Then I went to a convention where Uncle Duke put on his snake oil medicine show. It was quite good!
I mentioned his gesso, and he sternly corrected me that his primer was NOT gesso, but something far better. It ETCHED the metal…
It looked like gesso, smelled like gesso…

Uncle Duke's stain painting was not exactly a wash, but used dilute paint. I did OK just by keeping my brush wet.

The funny thing is that ONLY Uncle Duke's Heritage acrylics were good at staining. Some GW acrylics have the same feel, but don't stain as well.

So, I believe that you needed both Heritage primer and Heritage paints to get the best staining effects. I just can't get it with spray primer and craft paints.

Block painting and using the Dip gives better results.

I use it for certain things where I don't want a constant shade of color, horses usually, terrain on occasion. Did not know it was a Duke thing, I found a website on it a bunch of years ago. Did not strike me as a "fast" method, but maybe I am doing it wrong. It is messy.

Can anyone post any pictures of miniatures painted with this technique?

I did it for years or at least a variant of it. It did work fairly well. I remember that Heritage primer. Didn't know about gesso at the time. But John is correct about it being so. Heritage paints had a very bad tendency to dry out. The metallics would clump fairly quickly. But their bronze was one of the best on the market. I remember Chris Atkin painting Heritage 15mm Ancients using some of those paints at the Tin Soldier. I ended up with his Punic and Republican Roman armies where he used stain painting. Still have them.

Thanks,

John

Yes, been one for 25 years or so. I use dilute paint over white primer. To get a more finished look, I go back and shade in the recesses, often using a thicker version of the same color. Depending on what colors you use, I find that it gives a lighter, easier to see result (considering that many if not most wargame venues are under lit). I don't believe it is any faster than the Dallimore method, just different.

Acrylic paint can be used like enamel or oil base paint by applying it in thick coats over black primer and then highlighting. It can also be used like water color paint by applying it in thin coats over white primer and then shading.

Here are a couple of games with figures painted in this style:

link

link

This seems a common result: I use to stain paint (Some times still do) but mostly block paint and Magic Dip (the brush-on Min-Wax way) now, because of the speed.

Not sure I've ever seen an article about something explicitly called "stain painting".

I do remember a Dragon magazine probably in the early 80s describing somebody's speed painting technique that used both washes and stains; I remember trying to follow it and had a lot of trouble getting the paint to act like a stain -- I could get washes and thin paint no problem but not stains.

I did subsequently develop what I called the "sloppy wash" style; this is blocked out base colors, then a applying a heavy pigmented wash (so in retrospect, basically a stain) then after it's dried, the base color drybrushed back until the shading was how I liked it. And if needed normal highlighting atop.

(Nowadays I do the same thing but with a varnish wash rather than water wash, e.g., "dip" or "magic wash".)

And many years later, I worked up an underlighting technique where a figure would be shaded monochromatic (light primer dark stain or dark primer light drybrush) and painted with inks full strength (or theoretically paints thinned to translucency but inks work straight out of the bottle). This painted up very fast but the resulting colors didn't look like straight paints so you had to do a whole unit at once, and woe if you wanted to touch something up afterwards.

Curious to read up on the technique.

William Stewart, nice looking units and terrain. Do you have any closeups? I'd like to zoom in on something that was painted with the technique to see what it looks like.

EDIT: A little help from Google found the Dragon article I described, and it was about Duke Seifried's technique. It was Dragon #33, January, 1980; here's a PDF link, look for the Fantasysmith's Notebook article. PDF link

The article is worth reading but here is the basic idea using acrylic paints and a work area pre-arranged for speed painting:
1) White primer
2) Block colors with "stain", or paint thinned to translucency (suggests 1:1 with water for 80s Heritage paints).
3) Shade with washes with darker version of base color(suggests 1:3 paint:water).
4a) Detail belts, weapons, metal parts, with straight paint or slightly thinned paint. Paint only raised surfaces not around edges.
4b) Detail faces and other skins with base flesh coat and washes as needed.
5) Dimension or blackline with thinned black or dark brown; apply to edges of all gear and any color transition areas. This should clean up any mistakes from detailing.
6) Drybrush highlights with light version of base color.
7) Protect with matte or gloss varnish.

It does sound like an interesting technique. May be worth trying again now that I paint units and not single models, and if I use varnish as well as water to thin the paint, it can only help.

No. Don't care for the look.

My method that's I've used for almost 20 years now is to black primer, dry brush the figures with white, and then stain paint with the diluted color of choice, but one level stronger than you want. The edges are nice and bright, the recesses have dark shading as the primer underneath with white dry brush interacts with the paint.

Here's what I can accomplish using this method with some additional drybrushing on the skin after. I did this figure in a couple hours (54mm): link

I also did this Hudson and Allen 25mm building using that method:
link

Did it for a while, went to black undercoating and multiple dry-brushing sessions, then tried it again. Now back to heavy drybrushing with the occasional dip.

Was able to find the website I originally saw it on link
The staining method starts in part 5. No idea if its the same as the Duke method.

yes

No

Yep. The other day I pulled out the box with a bunch of Heritage LOTR Rohirrim, Dunlendings, and Men of Dale, which I had done that way with the approved products. They don't look too bad.

Allen

Edit: Oh, I see that stainpainting is not the dip; so no haven't tried it. I used to use washes (watered down acrylic paint) with less than ideal results. After switching to Miniwax (Tudor Stain), I'm a happy camper..er, painter. Guess I'm a dipper. Best, Dean

No.

"Do you have any closeups?"

Sorry Don, I don't. Dave Sullivan took the ones on the first two links. I tried to post one from Kevin Smythe's blog but it didn't attach. I may be a mediocre painter but I'm a hopeless photographer (and attaché).

Here is a link to the article Kevin wrote. The third photo down is of some Sash and Saber zouaves and seems to blow up real good.

link

I find it works best: If you start with black primer dry brush the whole mini white then use thin paint to paint the mini. brings out all the sculptors detail with very little work. Auto high lights and shadows.

then I dip them.

link

I tried it a long time ago on some Colonial British for Space 1889. I didn't like the look of the Red/Pink coats so I stopped. I still use it on horses but only after a black primer and a heavy white drybrush.
I use the dip mostly these days.

Red is the hardest to do. By far. Nothing like pink coat zulu war brits…

I wash my figures w/ stain after block painting.

Red is tough. I use equal parts of Americana Country Red and Americana Burnt Sienna. Shade with one part Country Red and two parts Burn Sienna. Seems to take away the pink look.

I've done it to good effect on plaster terrain pieces. It helps to use something with a high pigment density (e.g. artists' acrylics), requires a better thinner than water (I like Future because it doesn't reduce the durability of the paint), and works particularly well on things with lots of deep detail (thatch, wood, hair, feathers). The effect is comparable to painting with watercolors, bright with subtle shading. I would not recommend it for metallics.

I sat down with him at an Historicon several years back. I was interested in the technique. It was many many drinks later and I forgot how to do it. Wish there was a tutoral about it on line. It did work for mass units and his skills are something to see. I still have a warm spot in my heart for his rules that he could put together at a drop of the hat. He and Pete P. often ran games with no rules at all. They made them up as they went along. CLASSIC, I wish I had their skills!

I have one unit of Ral Partha Romans that I got from him with the technique that are very nice. Wish I could have purchased his entire Ral Partha Roman Legion from him. Fantastic figures that I consider some of the best in my collection.
VR
James Mattes

No… never tried it.

Yes, been doing it that way for years. Never liked the black undercoat method.

I have, especially with figures that show a lot of flesh (ancients, for example).

Kinda, a little bit. I do use inks/washes a lot.

Nope, doesn't look very good in my opinion.

I'm a block and dip kind of guy for most things…especially if they're supposed to look kind of rough and war-like anyway.