"Prussian Grenadiers, 1813-15?" Topic

Hi
Can anyone tell me what distiinctions Prussian Grenadiers, 1813-15 had (if any) from the Line 'Musketeer' Battalions?
Is it safe to assume that I can use 'bog standard' Line infantry figures to represent the Grenadier battalions?
I'm thinking specifically of modelling the 3rd Brigade's (GM Hessen-Homburg), II/East Prussian Grenadiers [1 battalion].
Thanks in advance

The grenadiers had plumes like the Russian grenadiers, but normally wore oilcloth covers on their shakos sso didn't wear them in the field. Furiliers were similar. The wide plume favored by modelers were changed prior to 1812. Grenadier plumes were white, fusilier plumes were black.

P.S. I do not have anything that says Hesse-Homberg's brigade contained any grenadiers. It contained the 2nd Ostpreussisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 3. There is also no such thing as the II/Ostpreussisches Grenadiers, each grenadier battalion being independent. There were the 1st Ostpreussisches Grenadier-Battalion and the 2nd Ostpreussisches Grenadier-Battalion.

The shako of the Prussian grenadiers had a rather large plume as well as a decorated band at the top, as I recall. However, an oiled skin or cloth was worn over the shako, just as with the Musketeers and Fusiliers. Thus, the Grenadiers on campaign are indistinquishable from the Musketeers. I consider Calpe the authority on these things and the Calpe line does not have separate Grenadier castings -- just the Musketeers. As I am sure you are aware, the one distinquishing characteristic between the Grenadier and Musketeer battalions is the different sholder straps. Within the Grenadier battalion, you will have two companies with the color of the first regiment and two companies with the color of the second. I do not have resources at hand so I do not recall which regts made up the II East Prussian Grenadiers.

According to all the research I've done, the 3rd Brigade, III (Prussian) Korps under Generalmajor Prinz von Hesse-Homberg consisted of:

Infantry regiment Nr. 4, 3rd East Prussian
Reserve Infantry Regiment Nr. 4 (Stammregiment – 3rd East Prussian)
2nd East Prussian Grenadier Battalion
3rd East Prussian Landwehr Infantry Regiment
Hussar Regiment Nr. 1, 1st Leib Husaren
Foot Battery Nr. 5

And as others have said, the grenadiers were indistinguishable from the musketeers since all would wear the shako cover on campaign. But that being said, all my grenadiers are wearing the plume since the figures I acquired over the years (MiniFigs and Scrubys) have the plume. So you can either be "realistic" and have everybody look the same or you can give your grenadiers the distinction of wearing their plumes. It is your army so you can take some liberties if you want. Remember, they are only toy soldiers and it is only a game.

Jim

Moustaches.

Moustaches (and whiskers) were common in the Prussian army throughout the Napoleonic wars (and after), and worn also by musketeers. No "moustache privilege" as e.g. in the French army.

Dear Scott
2nd East Prussian Grenadier Bn
It was formed from the grenadiers coys of IR4 (3rd East Prussian) and IR5 (4th East Prussian). Scarlet collar and cuffs. 2 coys from IR4 had yellow and 2 coys from IR5 had light blue. The 1810 shako had a large busch black plume. The 1812 shako had a thin plume. On campaign no plumes and oilskin cover. Carried the Ordinarfahne of IR4 (3rd East Prussian).

From
Summerfield (2009) Prussian Infantry 1808-40, Volume 1, 152-155.
link

April 1813
Hessen Homburg Brigade of East & West Prussian Reserve Armeekorps of GL Bulow that later was known as III Armeekorps.
2 coys of East Prussian Jager
2nd East Prussian Grenadier Bn
I-II/Fus/IR4 (3rd East Prussian)
III/IR4
I-II/IR3 (2nd East Prussian)
III/IR1 (1st East Prussian)

10 Aug 1813
3 Brigade of Hessen-Homburg
3 coys of Freiwillier Jager
2nd East Prussian Grenadier Bn
I-IV/IR4 (3rd East Prussian)
I-III/4RIR
I-IV/4th East Prussian LWIR
1-IV/1st Leib Hussars + Jager Sq
5th 6-pdr Battery

Stephen

All
Many many thanks.
You confirmed what I suspected and Stephen provided more detail than I could have hoped for.
I assumed the Grenadiers were a composite battalion of Grenadier Coys from two East Prussian Line Regts.
:o)
Thanks very much.
The bulk of my 'project' are CALPE minis, with some Perry and Warlord Game Prussians thrown in for added variety, (as if that was required given the variety already present in the CALPE range).
Cheers

Dear Scott
I am glad I was of assistance. The OOBs came from the book.
Stephen

Your bttln should have two companies with yellow shoulderstraps and the other two light blue.

Trailape, I am also painting Calpe. I have been painting for decades and they are the best "wargaming" figures that I have ever painted. A real joy.

Yep, you can't beat the Calpe figures…

The only thing on this that I can vaguely remember from researching Prussians (many moons ago) was that the grenadiers were supposed to have had a guards star plate on their ammunition pouch, instead of the device the musketeers had. But on campaign who knows what equipment they would actually end up using.

Dear Wishful
Only the Guard had the Guard Star Plate. The Grenadiers would have the oval brass plate.
Stephen

Calpe do actually have separate Grenadier figures, Trailape.

Peter has a note to this effect on the Calpe home page under 'Latest News', three paragraphs in.

Essentially just the moustaches are the difference, as noted above, and you can probably paint those on anyway.

Plutarch 64: Thanks for the reference. Not seeing Grenadiers specifically listed on Calpe's item list, I had not noted the reference in the Feb 2011 update. I guess I will just paint them on. Oh well.

Ah, thanks Stephen, that's what it was. Another vote for 'use the musketeers' then.

The only thing on this that I can vaguely remember from researching Prussians (many moons ago) was that the grenadiers were supposed to have had a guards star plate on their ammunition pouch, instead of the device the musketeers had. But on campaign who knows what equipment they would actually end up using.

Pietsch states that until 1817 the NCOs of the grenadiers "apparently" had grenades on their smaller cartrige pouches. The ordinary grenadiers had the same oval plate as the musketeers.

I stand corrected on the OOB for Hesse-Homburg. BTW My grenadiers DO have the wide plume (despite their replacement in 1810) I have also given my Guard Fusilier battalions wide black plumes, and my line fusilier battalions thin black plumes.

I thought the busch type plume was replaced by the thinner version in 1813-14 when the new style shako was introduced.

Just a question. Does a shako cover whilst on campaign necessarily discount full displays on the big day? I always rather thought that when taking the field, armies of the day put on a show.