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"Russian Flag bearers plume? 1812+" Topic


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686 hits since 21 Aug 2011
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Personal logo Striker Supporting Member of TMP21 Aug 2011 10:01 a.m. PST

I'm just getting into Napoleonics, post 1812 and painting Russians. I've inherited a bunch of minis (15mm, going to be based 4 to a stand = 1 btn). These aren't my purchase choices (so I didn't by "x mfg army packs) but I have no problem using them. Here's the problem: I'm painting up line infantry (not guard, grenadiers, etc) and that's going fine but I also have some flags I'd like to use with them but all the flag minis have plumes. On a whim I ordered an OG command pack and those flag minis have either the plume or the forage cap. Do the standard bearers always have the plume or do I just have the wrong bearers?

Ilodic21 Aug 2011 11:47 a.m. PST

Standard bearers are NCO's so yes, both line and grenadier stanard bearers would have the plume. BTW, jagers did not carry standards.

Personal logo Striker Supporting Member of TMP21 Aug 2011 12:57 p.m. PST

Aha! That's what I needed. Now I can finally start to base them up and not wonder. Thanks for the note on the jagers too.

Femeng2 Inactive Member22 Aug 2011 3:51 a.m. PST

No light infantry (except the French, of course) had flags in the field. The reasoin was that when in skirmish order, they did not have enough men to protect the colors.

Hugh Johns22 Aug 2011 8:14 a.m. PST

Ilodic is incorrect.

Ilodic22 Aug 2011 1:45 p.m. PST

After looking at my sources again I could not find anything to verify what I had said I thought was correct. However, I did find a link to Front Rank miniatures which if you scroll down clearly shows a line and grenadier standard bearer without and with a plume respectively.


link

ilodic.

plutarch 64 Supporting Member of TMP22 Aug 2011 2:28 p.m. PST

The guard look quite similar to the line, but the former did have plumes which is where the confusion may lie.

So guard and grenadier standard bearers yes, but line, no.

I have used a pair of tin snippers to good effect on Russian plumes in the past.

Personal logo Striker Supporting Member of TMP22 Aug 2011 7:01 p.m. PST

Snipping is an option, I wasn't sure if it was the right way to handle it or not. Thanks for the info guys.

Widowson04 Sep 2011 1:57 p.m. PST

Musketeer NCOs did NOT wear plumes. They wore the pompoms of the ranks. In the early period (pre-1809) they had gold lace around the top of the shako.

seneffe23 Sep 2011 2:19 p.m. PST

Sorry to come late to the party, but plumes for standard bearers even in Musketeer regts in 1812 I think.

Here's why- in Musketeer Regts, I believe the standard bearers were drawn from the NCOs of the Regt's Grenadier Companies (I can't put my finger on the primary ref for this as I'm away from my books- but will try to do so asap. Maybe one of the Russian Army experts could help), and wore Grenadier distinctions including the plume. I think a detachment of the Grenadier company also served as the colour guards.

In the active field Bns (1st and 3rd) of Musketeer Regts in 1812, the Grenadier company remained with its parent Bn and was NOT stripped out to form converged Grenadier Bns- these latter units were formed from the Grenadiers of the 2nd (depot) Bns- not the field Bns.

So for the Musketeer Regts in 1812- the standard bearers should have Grenadier distinctions. This means plumes- with the NCO's white and orange tip.

Widowson25 Sep 2011 3:45 p.m. PST

I'd like to see the primary source reference on this. I am building Russian units and want them to be accurate.
Thanks

seneffe26 Sep 2011 11:27 a.m. PST

Still away from my books but I think its in one of the Zhmodikov or Laurence Spring booklets published a few years ago, quoting contemp regs.

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