"Prehistoric Settlement -- One last time" Topic

You're probably all getting tired of me posting on this subject, but I have to do just one more. Last week, I posted about the contents of the boxes set. This weekend, I played Prehistoric Settlement for the first time and there's a lot to say about it.

First, my point from a couple of days ago is verified – it takes next to no time to pick up how to play and play well. I played against one of my buddies who had never played before and he was doing his own thing on the second turn. That, and he had a lot of fun. He even thought it might be worthwhile to introduce the game to his wife because it involved so much more than just combat. So, this game may be an intro to non-wargamers in a way that will ultimately pull them into more detailed games.

Second, the game was largely non-tactical. That is, strategy played a much, much more important role than tactics. The tactics are fairly straightforward – charge the enemy and wax him before he does it to you. But the strategy of where and when is the real challenge. We found that the logistics aspect of warfare was there in full force. For example, I launched a raid that took out the enemy's defensive screen and it looked like I was going to wipe him out by turn 4. But . . . the further I got from my supply base, the harder it was to replace losses; the deeper I advanced into his territory, the faster his replacements reached the front. So the battle ebbed and flowed back and forth more than once – four times, in fact. As my forward strength dwindled, I'd have to fall back. As he pursued, he suffered from distance while I gained strength as I got closer to my own depots. Frankly, I haven't seen such a thing happen since my days of playing Napoleonics ( and then, only because fatigue and ammunition shortages forced troops to drop back ) . Those players who like to do the suicide move, especially at the end of the game, will have a hard time with this one. At one point, I pushed a lot of force deep into the enemy's territory and managed to destroy a building or two thinking that that would set him back ( as it did ) . Unfortunately, he had replaced enough troops by that point to completely isolate my strike and wipe it out to a man. So, a player has to be always cognizant of the effects of losing scarce troops.

Third, decision-making was an on-going thing. There was never a time when I wasn't making a decision or pondering a decision – none of that business of getting into close combat and then turning the brain off while rolling bucketsful of dice. I constantly had to decide how to allocate resources to cheap, plentiful, but less effective troops versus more expensive, more effective but fewer troops. Decisions like whether or not to build an archer to cover a flank or to build more spearmen to press home a close assault. Add to that the decisions as to allocating resources between combat units and logistic units and it was a constant challenge. For me, it was a lot like the first time I saw Raiders of the Lost Ark – periods of intense excitement, an apparent pause, but then an almost immediate resumption of the intensity. The game played a lot like that, and ( I'll say it again, because it is why I wargame ) , I was challenged every moment of the game.

Fourth, the game is very strategic. A player can afford to lose an engagement and still keep the upper hand strategically. As we played, we got to thinking about the turns as if there were monthly turns instead of representing just minutes ( the game doesn't specify a ground scale, figure ratio, or time scale ) . It all made sense in that context and forced us to think in terms of force preservation, resource protection, and so on, rather than calculating what the odds were of defeating an enemy spearman. About six turns into the game, just after my initial raid across the border, we discovered another resource just on the enemy side of the border. Play revolved around that for another half dozen turns or so as its presence in enemy hands would have allowed him to far outstrip my production, and vice versa. We ebbed and flowed a couple of times over that and, at one point, I even had it in my possession but ultimately lost it. That was when I decided on a deep raid to strike at his resources that were unprotected. So, while most of his troops were defending that forward resource, most of mine pushed onward, destroyed a building and damaged another, and then got wiped out.

Lastly, replay value is very, very good. We had very few special events happen ( those happen when rolling doubles at the beginning of the turn ) . One of those was the newly discovered flint mine I alluded to above – it changed the complexion of the game. Others involved new terrain placement that helped to protect my base. The final one, though, was an earthquake that decimated my colony and made it possible for my opponent to press forward to capture my base. Between that and the randomness of initial resource placement, every game will be different. But the randomness is such that neither side suffers permanent debilitating effects from it.

The game has the feel of skirmish as far as combat is concerned. It has the feel of years passing as far as production goes. And it will not be for everyone. If you like to talk about the lucky roll you made on the last turn that won the game, this one won't be for you. If you want to talk about how you planned and allocated resources and forces, then it will. It you want to be challenged and thinking every moment, you'll love it; if you want to roll lots of dice without having to think into the future, you'll hate it. For all that, it was about as much fun as I've EVER had playing a wargame.

The product can be seen at: sbarber-models.clara.net. In the left pane, click "25/28mm" then, when the right pane refreshes, click "Prehistoric Settlement". To see the review that I wrote of the box contents in a previous post, go to TMP link

How long did that game last? How long do you think most games will last? Can it be expanded easily to multiplayers?

We found a very interesting phenomenon -- after playing for about 3 hours, we came to the conclusion that a 2-player game will last quite a long time; i.e., the players will get through a large number of turns. We didn't keep count but, from the way we tracked resources, our game lasted at least 16 turns.

We think, however, that a multi-player game will take fewer turns to reach resolution because it will be harder for a player to maintain an offensive when he has to worry about another player attacking while he's otherwise engaged with someone else. That means that players will tend to be more highly developed before they start raiding and therefore, raids will be less disastrous. However, with more players playing, even though fewer turns will be required, they will last longer because of the amount of things each player has to do during the turn, in sequence rather than concurrently.

The manufacturer says games can go from 20 minutes to 2 hours or longer. The game is designed around 2 or 4 players. Because of board setup, 3 or 6 might bump one of the players out early. But it looks easy enough to set up the board for 3 players so that no one has an advantage or is particularly vulnerable. I'm definitely looking to use this as a multi-player game because my regular group is usually 5 people and I want all to be able to participate.
To do that, you just have to be careful about the initial board layout.

Thanks for the reviews. I've been thinking about getting this game for a while now. You've finally convinced me to get my wallet out!

Would this game work with 15mm figures?

It would work fine, and 15mm buildings would be cheaper. Hmmm, I think that the 15mm figures would also look really good against the 25mm buildings, since they're all fairly small.

Where do you get 15mm prehistorics, though? I think I might like to go that route too.

Jizbrand: For a 3-player game, would a circular board divided into 3 equal wedges work better than the 3 squares? (Like a pie cut into 3 equal pieces.) Or is there something about the square that is required in the rules or mechanics of the game, that would be hard to modify for a wedge-shaped territory?

And, as an aside, I'm not getting tired of this subject at all. This is what I come to TMP for. Keep up the good work!

Pie-shaped would indeed work. The total area of each player's territory should be four square feet. So the pie slices would need a radius of about 23" and an angle of 120 degrees, if I remember my geometry correctly.

However it is set up, though, the object is to make sure that no player is facing just one opponent while another player is facing more than one. Otherwise, the poor guy who is sandwiched between two players will get chewed on by the other two and bumped out of the game pretty quickly.

Well, Irregular Miniatures have just released a set of 15mm figures for their TUSK game. Which is a game of prehistoric Mammoth hunting, we play it in 25mm. They have several sets available, straight forward prehistoric mammoth hunting cavemen, Victorian dinosaur hunters and many others. I’m hoping that there is enough variety within these sets to make up the figures. As I think that 15mm would feel right for a game like Prehistoric Settlement. I’ll give them a call tomorrow and find out what the packs include, what the heck! I’ll just buy the Mammoth hunting basic set at £9.50 and see what I get. I wanted to play TUSK in 15mm any way, to make my table seem bigger. At 25mm the dinosaurs cover ground way to fast and we run out of table very quickly! I’ll let you know what’s in the pack as soon as I get it.

Eureka has some cavemen in 15mm (or was it Minifigs), I seem NOt to remember... =/

I think the price of the boxed set is most reasonable if I lived in GB. Unfortunenately, with the devaluation of the dollar, and the cost of shipping, it's just too much IMO to pay 160$ to push around a maximum of 13 figures.

Now if there was somthing along those lines to where it was, say a viking settlement, and the figures could be bought in 15mm, and you might have as many as 50, or even a 100 figures, that would be more to my personal taste.

I'm wondering if the rules could be modified to fit a different era, using at least some of the mechanics involved. For example, instead of hunting, a farm would have to be built with so many people present on the farm in order to produce. A blacksmith shop to produce armor, a livery stable for horses, a shop for income, etc.

It is probably worth it to get just the rules to test your idea. Again, because of the exchange rate, they're a bit pricey but you should be able to get them from RLBPS here in the US and avoid currency conversion and big shipping costs.

I personally think the rules are adaptable to all sorts of periods, in concept form, at least. I'm trying to get my head around using them to simulate logistics for WWII and modern actions. But the key is that combat, in the rules, is highly simplified. The focus, after all, is on the logistics and combat is just an aside to that.

I'm wondering, now, if maybe they could be adapted to drive a campaign. That would allow detailed combat while still preserving the importance of the logistics. Hmmm.

sounds like agreat game. I may have to give it a try using orcs as stand ins. It could make for some interesting conversiion possebilities. Thanks for the report.

Chuck

I like the idea of using 15mm figures from different periods. Savage orc tribes competing for territory, or the Saxons invading after the Romans left. This could be really interesting! I’ve put an order in for the rules and I can’t wait to get them! I haven’t been this excited about a game for a long time, and I haven’t even played it yet!

wolfslayer,

Did you manage to get a reply on the Tusk pack contents? I'm planning along the 6mm line... :)

Not yet captain arjun.

I've ordered the basic Prehistoric Mammoth Hunt pack, and asked them to send information on the other packs. Will post here as soon as I have them.

6mm could be interesting. But probably a bit to small for my taste. I can see the appeal though, as you could really get the feel of a massive settlement. Have you thought about 10mm instead? It would probably be easier to identify the different figure types, but still allow for a larger game.

I did look at Irregular's 10mm range, but it is a little limited in availability.

At least for 6mm they already makes a mammoth and cavemen. May need a little conversion work for berry-pickers and other civilians, in which case the size of 6mm makes it easier to cover-up. Also, I will need to find 6mm sabre-tooths and other Ice Age mammals...

If I do go into the project, it will be one base to represent one figure, and probably a few huts to represent one hut, etc. Should make it look like a Warcraft game. :)

I see your point with the conversions, it would be easier to make them with 6mm. And it would also be easier to make the camps and other buildings in 6mm.

I've been thinking about sculpting some 15mm orc civilians, and then hand casting them. My brother and I have just started sculpting and the results are quite promising, whilst not the best in the business, they're by far not the worst either. We've only sculpted about half a dozen figures so far and they are getting better with each sculpt. He's good with buildings and other straight line sculpts, where I tend to be better with organic sculpts. I'll have to have a chat with him and see if he's up for it. Could be interesting, he could do the mines and other scenic items. Leaving me to concentrate on the figures. It would be interesting to pitch prehistoric humans vs Orcs of a similar level : )

Rules wise the Orcs would count as humans, to keep both sides balanced. Lets hope I can infect him with the idea : )

just stumbled across this thread, you guys may want to know that for 15mm games we now make a number of suitable resin casts, check out especially link
and
baueda.com/15got.html

We're also working of a range of 28mm prehistoric orcs, but that's another story!

Cheers,

Claudio
baueda.com