"Obscure conflicts please" Topic

OK
Here's the deal...
I'm sitting here bored out of my brain (well whats left of it anyway) and i need something to do, so i was wondering what are some obscure campaigns or conflicts worth researching. I know all about the main stuff, from Ancients through to Modern, so anything within this vast time period will be fine. Any civil wars, campaigns, ANYTHING at all...

Ummm....how about the Burmese-Ayutthayan Wars?

I'm presently painting some Eureka 25mm figures for the New Zealand Wars of the 1860s/1870s. Is that obscure enough for you?

The colonial New zealand Armed Constabulary figures are particularly cool to paint, as they wear blamkets wrapped round their legs instead of trousers. Their top halves are normally clad in dark-blue tunics and pillbox hats. This was called "shawl dress", and was commonly worn in the bush where normal trousers didn't last the distance.

The Maoris also wear blankets, but are depicted by Eureka bare-chested (though in real life many wore civilian waistcoats, as they had pockets for holiding cartridges and caps).

I'm planning on doing either small skirmish games, or building up enough figures to use "The Sword and the Flame" rules.

The first and second schlesvig wars between denmark and austria/prussia/other germans in 1848-50 and 1864 respectively

Orderly, might I suggest the fantastic world of 'Space:1889'?

You can explore the vast ruddy wilderness of Mars, dotted by ancient city-states either in alliance or conflict with the recently arrived humans, or dive into the primative swamps of Venus, where dinosaurs rule the land amid the fierce, tribal lizardmen. Don't forget the moon (also known by it's more formal, antiquated name, Luna), where two ancient and fascinating civilizations live, separated by miles of dead rock.

How about it, Orderly? Are you brave enough to face the challenges of a solar system of adventure?

:-)

The French in IndoChina had a war with the Thai's in 1940-41.

Hungary had a civil war in the 1920s. Greece and Turkey had a war in the 1920s as well.

South American history is just chock full of wars, but to name just one, how about the Soccer war between Honduras and El Savlador in the late 1960s.

The Chinese have had literally hundreds of civil wars, and almost any chinese army can fight itself as a historic opponent.

In WW2 the British fought the Vichy several times, and usually involved Free French units in the actions, so in many ways WW2 is a French civil war.

The British fought in Yemen in the 1830s.

One of my personal favorites is the (UK) Royal Navy which fought throughout the 1800s to end the international slave trade and piracy. Lots of bizare matchups from that one.

Don't leave out the Fennian raids by American-Irish patriots into 'Britsh-held' Canada.

Also Canada has had several rebellions that were squashed by the British as well.

Don't forget the various 'Kaffir Wars' between the Dutch (and later British) and various native tribes in South Africa.

I've also thought of using B'hoys or some other 'street gang' rule set to similate clashes in the late 1800s between rival ships crews in ports like Shanghai. Seems French/British/American/German/etc. crews regularly got into scruffs with locals and/or other ships crews, and that might be a nice 'unique' take on gang warfare.

Above all check out Copplestone's Back of Beyond for a rather unique setting.

First Barbary War: American Navy against the Barbary pirates.

"First Barbary War: American Navy against the Barbary pirates."

And don't forget the Marines... that conflict is the source of the "Shores of Tripoli" line in the Marine's anthem.

Sorry Parzival, you're right :-)

I saw some photos in a magazine the other day of the afternath of a US attack on Korea in the 1870's (or was it 1860's?) I'd never heard of it.

Seems some fort shelled a warship which landed a naval brigade and led to brief hostilities.

Another great 'campaign' was the anglo-Indian invasion of Tibet 1904.

Tibet versus China could make for an interesting game... bows versus rifles

Whiskey Rebellion - small skirmishes pitting groups of former minutemen vs. Continental Army under Washington

Ecuador vs. Peru about five years ago.

Gang wars of New York in the 1850's (Hence, "Gangs of New York")

Wyatt

Oh I nearly forgot, The Malayan Emergency and Indonesian Confrontation in the 1950s to the early 1970s. Brits (including Gurkhas) fighitng communist guerillas and Indonesians in Malaya. Not unlike a UK vietnam, except it went much better for the UK than Vietnam did for the US.

Also various minor interventions by UK troops in Commonwealth countries throughout the later half of the 20th century.

Orderly, I've got a PERFECT one for you, and it was only one battle: Kuala Batu ( or Quallah Battoo ) .

link

I first heard about this battle on, funnily enough, an old episode of 'Gomer Pyle, USMC'. It's intrigue led me to find out more about it. I believe it's a scenario worth gaming.

As for miniatures, East Riding Miniatures has Malaysians in 15mm, and I'm sure I seen them for 25/28mm, but I can't remember who makes them.

As for the US Marines, Freikorps makes some of that era's soldiers in 15mm in their Seminole War range. Again, I thought I seen some appropriate troops in 25/28mm, but I'm drawing a blank.

Help, anyone?

The Russo-Polish War, The 1930's Italian invasion of Ethiopia, WWI in Africa, Chinese and Russian civil wars, the various Russo-Turkish Wars, the South American Wars of Liberation, the activities of The Honorable East India Company, the fur trade, New Spain vs. Native Americans, Spains involvement in the AWI, and explorers vs. Hawaiians.

Im currently looking at all the Counter Insurregency Operations in Rhodesia and raids on Mozambique etc. A hodge podge of weapons and armanents on both sides

The Murid War between Russia and the Caucasian tribes from about 1820-1860s.

The Russo-Persian Wars.

The Druse Revolt agianst the French in the 1920s.

The Lebanese Civil War of the 1850s-60s, with European involvement.

The Campaigns of Muhammad Ali and his sons against the Wahhabis in Arabia, the Sudanese, the Ottomans and the British and Austrians from 1805-1848.

Sikh invasion of Tibet.

The Gurkha War of 1814-16.

The Campaigns of Nader Shah ('the Napoleon of Persia')

The Indonesian War of Independence, 1945-1949

Anglo-Burmese Wars

French-Siamese Border Conflicts, 1893

French in Indochina c.1885

Dahomey Wars

Anglo-Burmese Wars

Finnish Civil War

Holy Man Rebellion, 1902 (Laos vs. French and Siamese)

Bovoradej Revolt 1933 (Royalist vs "Revolutionary" Thais)

Irish Civil War

Swedish wars with Denmark during the middle ages, involed german and even polish mercenaries. Almost constant warfare including several Swedish civil wars 1440-1523.

Swedish crusades in Finland and Russia during the early-middle 13th century.

Swedish war against an alliance of Denmark, Lübeck and Poland during 15630-1570. The Nordic 7-years war.

Joint Swedish-Polish campaign against Russia in 1578

Swedish attempt to get a pro-swedish tsar on the throne in 1609-1610 Swedes, Finns and lots of mercenaries in the middle of Russia against Russians and Poles

Estonian war of independence 1919-1920.

The Freikorps war in Latvia 1918-1919, German feikorps and Baltic Germans against the Latvians, Red Latvians and Bolsheviks, and finaly an alliance of Estonians and Latvians with limited support by the Royal navy

Enver Pasha and the Army of Islam's campaign in the Caucasus 1917.

Saginaw, awesome!

Anyone know if anyone makes ships in 1/300th scale for this scenario?

Gracias,
Glenn

I'm doing the French invasion of Ireland 1798 at the moment. Armies are a very manageable size and have an interesting mix Pikemen, regulars, militia, Yeoman cavalry. should look good when I'm done.

Here's some books to stay away from if you do not want to succumb:

"Queen Victoria's Little Wars", by Byron Farwell (British Imperialism)

"Savage Wars of Peace", by Max Boot (American, err, umm, seeking influence in the word!)

"The Small Wars and Skirmishes", by Edwin Herbert. This and any of the Ian Heath books published by Foundry.

The previous issues of the Courier had a quite extensive series on the campaigns of Rabih in Central Africa.

Some Latin American Wars:

Wars of Liberation vs Spain

War of Triple Alliance 1860's Paraguay Vs Uruguay, Argentina & Brazil.

French intervention in Mexico, 1860's.

War of the Pacific, Chile vs. Bilvia & Peru 1879-1884.

Chaco War: Paraguay vs. Bolivia 1930's.

Oops. Make that Chile vs. Bolivia, not Bilivia.

not quite so obscure but a very cool (though cruel) subject might be pirate warfare in (south) east asia.

[Anyone know if anyone makes ships in 1/300th scale for this scenario?]

Hey Glenn. I believe East Riding Miniatures produces the old Grumpy's range or 6mm native boats. As for a 1/300 US naval frigate, I'd more than likely go with one of the commercially produced models (like the U.S.S. Constitution) or scratchbuild one.

Good luck! :-)

How about the "Honey Wars" between Missouri and Iowa that finally established the north/south borders of these two states in the 1830's? Or, the "Mormon War" in Missouri during that same period? Until the 1970's it was still legal to kill Mormons and collect a state bounty at Jefferson City. Fortunately for them, the law was never contested in modern times!

Joe

How about the Belgian uprising of 1830, and the failed Dutch ten day campaign to subdue them?

The Mexican revolt against (French-imposed) Emperor Maximilan.

The Moorish conquest of Spain and their attempt at taking France, or the Spanish reconquest -- the time of Roland and of El Cid.

Someone mentioned the Chaco War. This has been described as a precursor, tactically, of how WWII was fought, and used a lot of imported European weapons.

The "Cod War" between Britain and Iceland in the latter half of this century.

(Some of these may have been done -- I'm still new here.)

An addendum:

For a 25/28mm Kuala Batu refight might I recommend Old Glory's U.S. Volunteer Infantry with Command (TXT-09), with the appropriate Model 1833 "Hogkiller" leather forage caps. Also, you'll want to toss in their U.S. Naval Landing Party pack (MXW-29).

For 25/28mm Malaysians, the only figures I can see as makeshift substitutes would be Old Glory's Moros (SAW-31 and -32).

Great Paraguayan War (War of Triple Alliance) is great to game - I've got 15mm Armies for both sides

Always wanted to do the naval battles on the rivers. Brazilian and Argentine Ironclads vs. Paraguayan Canoes that would try and board. The Ironclads had to fire Grape shot at each other to clear them!

Other Wars: how about the Sino Japanese War 1936-45, overlaps with ww2 but pretty obscure aside from small US part. Linked you can do the Chinese Civil War with Communists and Nationalists.

I often focus on such wars in my magazine Time Portal Hobbies. i try to cover wars that are difficult to research.

A series of strange events are given in 'Strange American Wars'.

Greek Invasion of Turkey in 1919. etc.

The Cristero Uprising (or as it is miscalled in Mexico: La Revolución Cristera), basically in the time when the major conflicts in the Mexican Revolution were finished and Obregón, as well as his successor Calles, began a systematic prohibiting and hunting of Catholics (an quite a few Protestants, too) in the country.

Interesting, dramatic, very "skirmish" driven and, while nicely documented, there are a lot of obscure places on the whole issue, as well as being a separate chapter in the POST Revolution era, and not part of the Revolution as many have come to believe.

The various conflicts between 1558 and 1587 (I think) between Russia, Poland/Lithuania, and Sweden, with supporting roles from the HRE and Denmark, as well as one of the offshoot groups of the Teutonic Knights.

All in what is now Estonia and Latvia, and known as the Livonian Wars. Few big battles, lots of sieges, but looks very interesting all the same with the variety of involved combatants.

The Great Mammoth Northern War of 9,817 BC. :-)

The Modoc Indian War. Made into a movie with Alan Ladd and Charles Bronson.

Any of the USA Southeastern Indian Wars.

Also, the border clashes between the new USA and Spanish controlled Florida.

The Battle for Seattle - Naval forces versus land forces.

Any of the little campaigns in the Aubrey-Maturin, Bolitho, or Hornblower series.

Danish civil wars in the dark ages... got 5-6 to pick from :)

two that come to mind are:

the mesopotamian campaign in ww1 - one of the few occasions where an army has surrendered to a navy, and renowned as probably the only time the captain of a RN ship heard "there is a camel fouled in the propelor" or words to that effect.

and the portugese involvements in SE asia in the 17-18th C.

Mustn't forget the WW2 US bombing campaign against Switzerland.

Isn't the Power and the Glory set during the period of Obregon and Calles?

Erm, not sure if these are on already or not: The Sino-Indian war Circa 1960 I think; the war between West Pakistan (now Pakistan)and East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) after Independence.

US Marine small actions in the Carribean. 1840-1968. Max Boot's book The Savage Wars of Peace, describes tons of off the wall scenarios.

How about the military battles in California, between the US and Californio's (Mexicans). I think there was a fairly large battle in the LA area. There was a small skirmish in Santa Clara and one in Marin County.

How about Mayan wars between different Mayan cities/kings. I've seen some TV shows detailing how different Mayan cities were destroyed by fighting.

Walkers mercenaries, fighting in South America at the behest of US railroad companies, would make not only for interesting tabletop battles, but also for a superb campaign game.

I also believe US Marines invaded Nicaragua early in the 20th century, when that country defaulted on loans from US banks. Can someone confirm?

Harry Turtledove's Second and Third Civil Wars, although I forget what he named them. I have stopped reading them, after the last two or three were so appallingly boring, but it looks like the USA and CSA are girding their loins for WW2.

Bulgarian War of Independence (ca. 1878): Russians against Turkish.

Griefbringer

Cameron --

You've got it backwards. Walker was fighting for slave-holding interests and got into a fight *with* the railroads. If memory serves, it was Cornelius Vanderbilt who financed the war that got rid of Walker. (That was a big dust-up for the region, and involved Guatamala and Costa Rica besides Nicaragua.)

The USMC intervention you're thinking of occured in 1926.

Heh. I just did some quick reading about Walker -- apparently, he was *supposed* to work for Vanderbilt, but decided to work for himself after taking V's money.

What an utter and complete jerk. ;)

I take V's pre-invasion involvement back -- teach me to believe everything I read on the Internet. ;)

How about Toussaint L'Ouverture's uprising in Haiti/Saint Domingue? It involved (at various times) French, Spanish, British and US as well as the slaves. It also resulted in Haiti becoming an independent state (WAAY more successful than Spartacus!)

The Second Russo-Turkish War of 1786-91. Fascinating campaign involving Cossack rowboats, heavily armed vermiculars, ships of the line, Tartars, Jannissaries, Sipahis, the Chechens fighting their crusade under the mysterious Sheikh Mansour (rumored to be an Italian renegado), European adventurers with Potemkin's army, Cossacks, lots of skirmishes, innefective Austrian campaigns, Suvorov and several major assaults on almost impregnable fortresses. Simon Sebag Montefiore's biography on Potemkin is a must read.